In addition to the three certified laptops and the large hardware compatibility list there is a need for a shorter list of laptops/desktops that are available to be bought and work well with the current Qubes OS release.
As a first step, this thread is meant to collect candidates for that list. If you run a setup that fulfills ALL of the following conditions, please list it in this thread.
Qubes OS R4.0.4 can be installed without workarounds
Mayor functionality is available (i.e. graphics, sound) with the standard Fedora template (i.e. WiFi, Ethernet) without additional troubleshooting
The performance is acceptable for every day tasks (web incl. audio/video, view/edit documents)
The computer is readily available to be bought new or used
If things like Bluetooth or suspend are not working “out of the box” this can be mentioned as a limitation. The part about “readily available” might vary by region – that is fine.
Any candidate that fulfills the above conditions and is backed by two or more reporters makes it on the list. We might repeat this process once a year or after a major release (like R4.1).
The list is hosted in the forum and marked as a community effort independent from and not endorsed by the core team:
Lenovo ThinkPad P51 with i7-7820HQ & HD 630 graphics
In addition to my HCL report, there is an additional report by Michael Holt with the same configuration (he uses the Nvidia card which is also present and verified in my setup).
swami has the same setup as Michael Holt and myself but only submitted an R3.2 HCL report and at that version several workarounds where required. Swami, if you read this and you run R4.x meanwhile please submit a new HCL report to back us up.
Dave C reports with a i7-7700HQ and only mentions the TPM not being recognized (same as Michael and me), but otherwise no issues.
Yannic Schneider reports with a different CPU: Xeon E3-1535M and used Fedora Media Writer to create the ISO … this indicates a changed ISO and therefor doesn’t fulfill the “installs without workarounds” requirement.
Sven targets on inexperienced users (Win/Mac-Users) whom want as little as possible “effort” to get qubes running, which is a good point and should be kept.
I would additionally list devices (probably marked as “effortful”) that may need easy/well known workarounds, for instance to get qubes installed (black screen issue) or to make sound work, but afterwards run qubes like a charm!
The Lenovo T440s is a good example. You need a kernel parameter to get the installer appear, but thats it, just works!
I was thinking the same thing.
Of course, it’s nice that a laptop is working out of the box and lots of (most?) people are looking for such a device.
But there is a growing number of people that likes tinkering with stuff, people who are using a Raspberry Pi or Arduino for small projects. Or people that are just wanting to learn stuff. There are Computer groups in different cities helping people with computer problems or even with flashing Coreboot.
It might be interesting to have a counterpart to Sven’s list or is this unnecessary because what’s not on Sven’s list is being considered as somewhat complicated (more or less)?
Maybe I got you wrong (then please correct me) but what you describe is what the HCL is for, right? “This” list should only include devices that support the current stable without modifications or at most solutions/workarounds like a parameter or additional package (included in qubes stable repo!!!), in other words: easy solutions.
In my opinion a separated list of devices that support the coming stable (R4.1) already or are planned to be supported (if thats the case?) would make sense.
Maybe I got you wrong (then please correct me) but what you describe is what the HCL is for, right? “This” list should only include devices that support the current stable without modifications or at most solutions/workarounds like a parameter or additional package (included in qubes stable repo!!!), in other words: easy solutions.
It’s unlikely that anything on this list WONT support 4.1
“Planned to be supported” is difficult, since 4.1 is still in testing,
and issues might arise that make a 4.1 release not include fixes aimed
at particular hardware.
Perhaps, when we get to rc1 we could try such a list. The machines used
by developers and the new testing team would be a good start.
That said, I wouldn’t want to encourage someone to buy a particular
machine for 4.1 until it had been tested against the final release.
As I wrote to @BigQ … “people that likes tinkering”, “people that are
just wanting to learn stuff” are already well served with the HCL, which
is the “counterpart to Sven’s list” and contains all feedback from all
reporters.
This thread / effort is explicitly about having a list of computers that
will just install Qubes OS and run. For Journalists, Lawyers, Activists,
Stalking victims, Women, Grandparents … everyone BUT “people that
likes tinkering”
(I am sure I made multiple mistakes in the list above, possibly violated
the code of conduct and offended lots of folks – please see my intention)
Perhaps, when we get to rc1 we could try such a list.
I was thinking to make the list when R4.1 is released and becomes the
“current” release. At that point lots and lots of folks will have
already installed R4.1rcX and have submitted HCL reports.
It shouldn’t take more than a week or two to get the list together.
… and thank you for all the pointers to the ThinkPads.
If 4.1 doesn’t support at least all the same hardware as 4.0, isn’t that clearly a mistake on our part (i.e., the Qubes team) in designating the release “4.1” rather than “5.0”? In other words, per the semantic versioning standard, which we profess to follow in naming our releases, is it not the case that 4.1 must add functionality in a backward-compatible manner?
I meant to say “everyone but people that like to tinker”
Please ignore the list. My intention was to enumerate people more likely
to need the security of Qubes OS, but if you think that thought to the
end that answer is: everyone.
The spread from devices working out of the box to devices which need self complied kernels with multiple patches (as example) is really huge, thats why i thought devices with “little effort” should be added here too.
Anyway, Sven’s list is a good idea and should be kept and developed to be a starting point for absolute beginners.
There may be issues that relate to the “acceptable performance”
and the “without workarounds” conditions.
For example, packages are sometimes removed from distros, so (e.g) a
NIC that works fine in debian-10 may require an additional package be
installed in debian-11. I assume the same happens in Fedora.
Then there is the question of RAM requirements for 4.1 - I assume it is
the same as for 4.0, at least for basic installs, but that’s an
assumption, not validated as yet.
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