Short list of laptops/desktops that work well with Qubes OS

augsch · April 17, 2023, 5:48am

I’d like to recommend lenovo thinkbook 14 gen3 ACL.

This model has one soldered 8GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, and one RAM slot. So this model has a maximum RAM capacity of 40GB.

Zen3 APU is the latest gen of AMD mobile processors that Qubes OS R4.1 can be installed on without workarounds.

With recent Xen, kernel and firmware upgrades, S3 suspend is now fully working.

The Ryzen Zen3 APU is both powerful and energy-efficient. It has a battery life of around 6 hours with Qubes, which is superior to Intel models. FHD web video playback is smooth, and hardly makes the fan spin when played in chromium.

To summarize the processor part, I have to say that Ryzen Zen3 offers a top-class , balanced performance. There’s no obvious shortage. To compare this processor between various options, I’ll give a form.

CPU series	relative performance	relative battery life	additional note
Ryzen 5000s APU	average	average	can suspend
11th gen core	lower	slightly shorter	can suspend
12th gen H/HX	higher	much shorter	can suspend
13th gen H/HX	higher	shorter	can suspend
12/13th gen P/U	higher	shorter	suspend issues due to S0ix
Ryzen 6000s APU	slightly higher	slightly longer	needs workaround to install

Linux driver support is excellent and comprehensive. Bluetooth in sys-audio, audio with sys-audio, audio with dom0, webcam, wifi, ethernet…are all working flawlessly. I even hear that there are places this model gets sold with linux pre-installed.

The only thing I can complain is that sys-gui-gpu isn’t working, because the iGPU needs AMD PSP to work. However, that’s a even more bleeding-edge experimental feature than sys-audio, so I’m fine with that.

deeplow · April 17, 2023, 11:02am

4 posts were split to a new topic: Thinkpad T16 (Intel Gen 12) Does not suspend (sleep) in Qubes OS R4.1 at all

novacustom · May 3, 2023, 10:38am

It took longer than expected, but it’s finally there

SteveC · May 3, 2023, 4:59pm

I’m getting the impression that the only certified machines are from Europe.

I have no idea what purchasing one for someone in the US would entail.

Sven · May 3, 2023, 8:01pm

The PrivacyBeast X230 by Insurgo is to my knowledge the first / original certified machine. It ships from Canada. I value both the ThinkPad X230 and T430 based machines due to the fact that they are Ivy Bridge based and the ME can be completely removed. Obviously this comes with a performance hit.

Thierry / the Insurgo Initiative is the current maintainer of heads, so purchasing a certified laptop from them supports the heads project. Another good reason in my book.

This newly announced certified laptop in contrast is an excellent option for users requiring higher performance and being content with (a disabled?) ME. One also needs to mention that there are recent reports of some X230 and T430 users including myself experiencing performance and stability issues with R4.1. These have not been root caused and fixed as of yet.

arkenoi · May 3, 2023, 8:34pm

TopTon S600 is a very nice desktop computer. You get 64Gb/1Tb/i9 12th gen for sub-$1K money!

ncm · May 5, 2023, 4:37am

Wondering whether he Framework laptops will be certifiable. Waiting for their AMD 16-in LED UHD, might be some time coming.

novacustom · May 5, 2023, 9:35am

Hi Sven, would it be possible for you to add the NV41 Series to the list now this laptop is a Qubes-certified model?

Sven · May 5, 2023, 5:26pm

@novacustom: it’s a Wiki post, please update the field describing the number of USB controllers (not ports!) available.

@pietrushnic: please do the same for the Z690. Also: does it have PS/2 ports for keyboard/mouse … if not it appears that requirement was dropped for certified machines, in which case we should drop it from this page to (and continue to list the Z690).

renehoj · May 5, 2023, 6:08pm

The Z690 only has a single PS/2 port. I don’t know if it’s possible to use mouse and keyboard at the same time, but you can use a PS/2 keyboard.

Sven · May 5, 2023, 6:24pm

Perfect! That way the user can’t log themselves out of the system when configuring sys-usb.

pietrushnic · May 5, 2023, 8:16pm

Hi @Sven, sorry, but I don’t get what action is needed here from our side.

Sven · May 5, 2023, 11:08pm

@pietrushnic I’m looking for the number of USB controllers available on the board. Just realized that you submitted a HCL report so I’ll get the number from there. No action on your side needed.

@novacustom please submit a HCL report.

balko · May 7, 2023, 3:37pm

For some reason Thinkpad T16 (and maybe other modern Thinkpads too) have non-usb keyboard and touchpad. So, even if everything went south with sys-usb - user still has ability to type and use mouse, it’s awesome. Does it mean it’s like PS/2 inside?

About PS/2 as a requirement - I think it can be outdated for 2 reasons:

Even if something wrong with sys-usb or other usb qube, one can boot without qubes autostart (adding kernel parameter via the boot menu) and have mouse and keyboard back for fixing stuff.
Having 2-3 USB controllers is more valuable than having PS/2, especially if one can use one of them exclusively for input to dom0, like for keyboard and mouse. My opinion.

So, that means: everybody, please provide information about number of USB Controllers (as @Sven asked) and even better if you can provide information which is what - “like first controller is USB2 with keyboard, touchpad, fingerprint and wifi, second is USB3 for 2 usb ports on the side of the laptop” and etc.

Sven · May 8, 2023, 5:34pm

6 posts were split to a new topic: How to figure out which USB port goes to which USB controller?

novacustom · May 10, 2023, 8:41am

@Sven I’m having trouble updating the list.

Would you be so kind to update the NovaCustom NV41 Series on the list, please? It is Qubes OS certified and we ship it pre-installed. The HCL reports mentions the number 3 under usb:

Qubes-HCL-Notebook-NV4xPZ-20230510-100826.yml (851 Bytes)

balko · May 10, 2023, 12:16pm

Can you provide full output of lspci -vv and lsusb -v from dom0 and information about how usb ports, wifi, bluetooth, touchpad, keyboard, other stuff are connected to these USB Controllers?

novacustom · May 10, 2023, 2:27pm

Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but lsusb -v doesn’t give any output.

You can find the lspci -vv output here: lspci-v.log (12.8 KB)

… information about how usb ports, wifi, bluetooth, touchpad, keyboard, other stuff are connected to these USB Controllers?

I think you need the schematic diagrams of the hardware. Even though we’d love to publish this, we are only allowed to share this with customers on request. If you bought a NovaCustom laptop, please write us an email with the request for the schematic diagrams.

balko · May 10, 2023, 4:23pm

Not diagrams. My point being that 3 USB Controllers may mean actually 1 for the purposes of using it in Qubes OS. I saw situations like that: when all usb ports on the laptop are connected to a single controller, that it is also responsible for “wifi/bluetooth/touchpad/keyboard” - it is like having 1 controller after all, because other 2 controllers can do some internal stuff (thunderbolt/pci), that user cannot physically use anyway.

To match connectors and devices (wifi, bluetooth, touchpad, keyboard) with USB Controllers you can use manual tests like @unman proposed here: How to figure out which USB port goes to which USB controller? - #28 by unman

I am so insistent about this because it does matter for Qubes OS users, and users should definitely know what will they get as a certified laptop to avoid disappointments (congratulations on certification, by the way!).

Sven · May 11, 2023, 12:09am

Done.