Lost in picking Laptop for QubesOS

User Support
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Hello Qubes Community,

I have been thinking of moving to Qubes for many years.
I mostly work with delicate code.

However, I am bit lost in picking a laptop in the range $600-$1000 in Europe.
I have been looking over the supported hardware page, the HP Probook 445 or 500 G9 seems fine; but, I am scared that something is not gonna be fully compatible, and that it will take too much effort to configure.

Also, in your experience 16GB ram is enough? And how about the i5, is maybe too slow?

I apologize if these may seem stupid questions.
Thanks in advance!

Riccardo

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If you don’t mind the older specs, I have had a lot of success with Thinkpad t480 era. My desktop has had times where an update made things less reliable (eg kernel needing an update that hadn’t been released yet) but the Thinkpad just kept on working

An i5 is fine, nvme/ssd speed and memory are the most important.

16gb is manageable but it forces you to keep an eye on it. Just running dom0, firewall and whonix will use 12gb. If you don’t need whonix then 16gb is more workable. 32gb is better.

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Thanks for the reply!

And yes, I would definitely like to run Whonix.
This means I would need 32gb.

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An Excellent Question. One which everyone who considers Qubes asks.

I write this for anyone, while not knowing their; education, knowledge base, skill level is. So OP, please don’t be offended if I am overly simplistic.

If you needed to use a computer for a secure communication, immediately, right now. Like I wanted to communicate with my divorce attorney before my wife, wants to run all the debt possible for me to pay, and then, she takes the house, kids, dog, cat. (Well, that cat never liked me) I would use Tails OS. Runs a live version of Linux from a USB stick, leaves no trace on the computer it was used. Has excellent documentation on their website, as how to use securely is not just about hardware, but about the mistakes we make.

Do you intend to use Qubes for a big part of your computer life? That is, to me, I would not want to run Qubes with less than 16 GB of RAM. For some users, the frustration of the delay in only having 16 GB of RAM would turn them against using Qubes. Even though Qubes, could have been the answer to their needs.

FYI: The terms core I5, and core I7, are to me, somewhat marketing terminology. What you should be looking at is the generation of the Intel Processor, another way of saying which year the Intel Processor design was released. In each Generation of Intel Processor, there is an Core I5, and a Core I7. Later Generation Processors, are supposedly much faster in use, spins up a Qube faster. Later generation Processors are supposed to run cooler, using less power. Downside. Later generation Intel Processors have a Graphics chip installed which was designed to work with M$ Windows. and I can not comment on whether these Graphics chips work well with all versions of Qubes. If not now, it will. Qubes Developers are, in the months ahead, about to release a newer version of Qubes OS.

Because of my extreme poverty, I, like corny, have T-480, which is an 8th generation processor. Advantages, it just plain works with Qubes. Well, pretty easily. T-480 can have the RAM upgraded to 64 GB. Two years ago I bought a renewed, T-480, with a best screen available, Core I5, 16 GB RAM from Amazon for just over USD $200.00. Then I bought 64 GB of RAM for USD $150.00.
Screens can not be upgraded. Two: Beware, in different parts of the world, the T480 comes with other types of internal hardware. The T480s (notice the s) is limited to 48 GB of RAM. I have never seen one.

T-480 Downsides. 8th Generation Processors no longer receive Intel Microcode Security Updates.

In my opinion, even choosing the highest quality screen available in a T-480, it is not as nice as some other laptops, but adequate for my use. I would not want to watch movies on it. But I could plug a good screen, and I would watch movies on that.

If it was a laptop I took to my office, I think, that if my boss was leaning over my shoulder and saw how long it took to spin up a Qube. He would quickly say, get rid of Qubes, I can’t have you spending that much of your time waiting on this thing to -what start a Qube. I am paying you to work.

Some who have problems starting and using Qubes have issues with Graphics.

As for the models you are looking at. The “Hardware Compatibility List,” HCL, usually has notes as to how to get around any issues. Hardware compatibility list (HCL) | Qubes OS

Be Nice if you advised us to how things worked for you. Might save someone else some worry.

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What manufacturing/model laptop do the developers have in common?

Maybe they deliberately use different manufacturer/models as to test better?

And probably all developers have powerful towers to test variations, first compile on. but. . . curious.

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My experience is that:

  • one should not buy from “Linux Laptop” companies. Because they all seem to care about money more than shipping a well tested product.
  • my best experience was with Dell and Lenovo
  • 32gb is minimum for Qubes with any kind of future tolerance.
  • Many smaller things depend on usecases.
  • Make sure to know how internal devices are attached if you are serious about compartmentalization without having multiple devices. (Look at my other posts for my recent misfortune in that regard.)
  • Minimum 6 cores
  • Don’t buy convertibles, their linux support is usually garbage.
  • business laptops have more chance of reasonably good firmware security
  • gamerboards are often weird and sloppy but can be hacked or corebooted often your mileage with coreboot build quality may vary
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If you qre using QubesOS to write divorce papers,emails and letters to solicitor begging your wife to dont let you naked…well,is too late: they have your correspondence and that makes a “Permanent Record” that never will be erased.

Back ontopic, my two work active laptops are a DELL 5000 Series Precision mobile workstation and Lenovo ThinkPad same , mobile workstation.
Both, i7 CPU, 64Gb RAM, Dual SSD inside .
Running daily and i had no troubles “forgetting” qubes opened and running with four cores and 4Gb memory…
My junior,using a Lenovo series,i7,32Gb and ssd,the fastest running device in his whole school place.

So,generally speaking, ill recommend a minimum multicore CPU, maximum memory that on-board can take (32 >64) and a fast SSD…all fitting your budget and expectations.

Dont forget to add an active fan cooling pad as the laptop sensors will spikes the numbers, up & high !!!

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newUser2025

I am glad you replied. Please add generation numbers. The terms I5 and I7 are often, not very descriptive in communicating what the actual CPU is. As the terms of I5 and I7 are repetitively used by Intel with each of the different generations of processors, at last one generation a year for - well the third generation was what 2012, we are now at generation 14.

I have considered whether I could use a cooling pad, likely a good idea. but I would not want to carry it to coffee shops, library and so on. Now it is winter. I will think on it next spring. Thank you for for getting me to remember the option.

What I thought was true, was that Qubes is originally installed to use only one core, because of possible malware related to using multiple cores. Just a bunch of folks change that option. That is sorta a Question. What is the truth as of now?

Does anyone know of a company which manufacturers build laptops with multiple separate multiple USB controllers? Which other hardware features would we choose? Which are absolutely needed to run a Secure Qubes Laptop?

Antarctica: Any specific hardware catch your eye?

What about WiFi chips?

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I wanted to add something regarding purchasing a Linux or Qubes verified machine and slightly challenge @Antarctica’s advice about not buying a Linux laptop. Both Antarctica and I have been disappointed with our purchases of Linux / Qubes certified laptops that did not meet our expectations. I cannot speak for Antarctica, but speaking for myself as a beginner, I trusted that a Qubes OS certified laptop was fully secure up to my standards. This is where I went wrong.

Why? Because Qubes certification represents a basic security standard that may not align with your specific threat model.

As a newcomer to Linux and feeling overwhelmed, I had a trust bias when purchasing this machine simply because it was Qubes certified. I relaxed too much and failed to verify or ask the important questions.

Qubes recommends that their certified laptops have easily removable microphones and speakers, which is essential for me. I assumed this would be the case and didn’t ask; now, I’m stuck with a glued-in microphone. I was also promised that the device could be ported to coreboot in the future, but that didn’t happen. The company isn’t to blame for that, but how they handled my issues wasn’t satisfactory, and I no longer consider myself a customer.

Looking back at the mistakes I made, I advise anyone buying a Qubes certified machine to assess their threat model and ask all necessary questions before making a purchase! Don’t rely solely on Qubes certification for a completely secure machine. Check the details thoroughly.

Again, I am not speaking for Antarctica. This is my situation, but I believe you should still consider Qubes certified / Linux machines while verifying that the builder meets all the specifications you need for your threat model.

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You can hit me up for advice on checking.

Because I documented every time I have missed such things

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do you have a website for this to buy 1 ?

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@Cosmic3ye You can check these links:

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the lenovo G505S and @mike_banon 's work might be an interesting for you to look at

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Take a HP Elitebook 840 G10, 14 inch with 32GB RAM if you want a quite slim, small and light laptop with USB only (no real Ethernet).
It runs Qubes 4.3-RC3 quite fine, the sound is quite usable. The camera has a hardware deactivation slider. It is modern and quite expensive.

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My experience says that 32nm and bigger Intel-CPUs are NOT supported with current qubes 4.2.x and 4.3