Short list of laptops/desktops that work well with Qubes OS

User Support Hardware Issues
30

@unman:

**Lenovo ThinkPad x220t with i5-2520M **

Max RAM - 16GB
Tablet fully working connected to sys-usb. (Requires minor configuration
to enable tablet rpc)

Would you mind posting the “minor configuration” to the forum so I could
link it from the list please?

To clarify: The way I read it the X220T works perfectly WITHOUT any
modification and therefore fits the bill. If one want to use it as a
tablet … THEN a “minor configuration” is needed.

31

So far this is the Lenovo ThinkPad list (yes I’ll look into Librem 15).

Any chance there are other candidates?

Technically I could (and probably will after publishing a first version)
screen the entire HCL, identify candidates and then try to contact the
reporters to see if they had a “no workarounds needed” experience with
R4.0…

…but I’d appreciate some pointers from the community to get the first
version out of the door quickly.

32

@michael wrote:

I would recommend we reframe the “tested model” content and have it
be “recommended/curated Community test results” rather than “Qubes
developer-tested results”. and the content can be the effort
currently being done in this thread.

Thank you @michael, I like this a lot. I’ll post the result to the forum
in any case, but if @adw agrees with your proposal I’d be very happy to
submit a pull request to the website too.

33

@unman:

**Lenovo ThinkPad x230 with i5-3210M **
I asked the person who uses it now and they said 4.0 works fine.

There is actually only one HCL entry from Cody Gardner for this exact
CPU and it mentions UEFI
workarounds.
Would you mind checking with the person who is using it now if they had
to apply any workarounds to get R4.0 installed?

34

ThinkPad X220 and X220 Tablet are limited to 8 GB max memory. While this
satisfies the minimum (6 GB) it is just half of the recommended memory
(16 GB).

Personally I’d be able to work with a 8 GB machine just fine using the
minimal templates, but this list is meant to be a “just works” kind of
thing. So I am not sure whether to include those.

Could I please get some feedback / opinions about this?

1 Like
35

I agree with removing the current “tested model” content. However, I’m not convinced that the content should go directly on the official website for the following reasons:

  1. People will mistake them for official recommendations, even if we clearly state that they’re from the community. (“I got this from the official website.” “But it’s on the official website!”)
  2. The content on the official web page will go out of sync with the content here on the forum. Then, it will be not clear which one is correct, and users will be (justifiably) confused. Maintaining only one copy of the list prevents this from happening.

For these reasons, I’m inclined to think that it’d be better if we simply linked to the community-maintained list on here on the forum.

In practice, this could mean:

  • We add a link to the forum list in the doc index and on any appropriate pages (e.g., the HCL page).
  • The existing hardware testing page becomes only about developer hardware testing activities and not at all about recommending models. Or we just eliminate this page entirely (if the devs don’t need it), and the existing URL becomes a redirect to the forum list.
36

I don’t think it’s a good idea to include 8 GB models due to the following scenario:

  1. User sees 8 GB model recommended on the list.
  2. User, not yet understanding the significance of memory to running Qubes, purchases 8 GB model.
  3. User runs into OOM problems.
  4. User posts about problems on forum.
  5. People reply, “It’s because you don’t have enough RAM.”
  6. User asks, “Can I add more?”
  7. People reply, “No. You should’ve gotten a model that supports more.”
  8. User now feels cheated, like there was a bait-and-switch. “Why did you recommend this model when you knew it wasn’t going to work well?”

Now, someone might say, “You can still list the 8 GB models. Just make sure to add a warning.” But how is a prospective user supposed to really understand the meaning and significance of this warning without ever having used Qubes? Most users don’t really know how many qubes they want to run simultaneously until having established some kind of workflow.

1 Like
37

I think the T450s meets the criteria (HCL link). The main problems are with AEM and having to reboot at least once a week, which do not involve the specified criteria. No longer available new. Not sure how many are available on the used market.

1 Like
38

That sounds good to me.

39

@unman:

**Lenovo ThinkPad x220t with i5-2520M **

Max RAM - 16GB
Tablet fully working connected to sys-usb. (Requires minor configuration
to enable tablet rpc)

Would you mind posting the “minor configuration” to the forum so I could
link it from the list please?

To clarify: The way I read it the X220T works perfectly WITHOUT any
modification and therefore fits the bill. If one want to use it as a
tablet … THEN a “minor configuration” is needed.

The “minor configuration” required is enabling the qubes.InputTablet policy.
I’m not sure if a special note is required - after all, we dont refer
to enabling the qubes.InputMouse policy, do we?

40

@unman:

**Lenovo ThinkPad x230 with i5-3210M **
I asked the person who uses it now and they said 4.0 works fine.

I’m afraid I don’t use UEFI, and almost all of the reports from me will
be on machines with legacy boot or coreboot. (As the certified hardware.)

41

Not so - the maximum RAM is 16GB

I agree that machines with maximum less than 16GB should not be
included.

1 Like
42

Think this requires a bios flash. What I had to do on my x220.

Hehe, I had an x220 spare, seen the x220/x230 were being recommended. Upgraded ssd and up to 16gb ram. Not really possible as a daily driver. Was good to explore qubes as a complete beginner (to Linux and computing too) but even using the x220 piqued my interest to invest in a better machine.

43

I’ve been working with these machines for years - I’ve never flashed the
BIOS just to get the 16GB recognised, usually with 1866MHz DDR3.
Since you don’t say what you flashed, or what RAM you were using, I cant
comment on your case.
It shouldn’t affect this list, since it aims at machines that can be
bought and run “as is”.

1 Like
44

My apologies went back and looked at the flash and it was to reach 1866mhz.

45

@unman wrote:

Not so - the maximum RAM is 16GB

Interesting, the official specs for both X220 and X220 Tablet say otherwise:

So if you can confirm that 16 GB works in those machines, despite the
spec saying otherwise – I am glad to add them to the list.

46

There is one more HCL report showing X220 with 16 GM RAM:

Adding it to the list.

47

That’s what I’ve been using but I have not done any testing. Just general use which seems fine.

48

@adw wrote:

T450s

I’ll gladly add it to the list. At the moment it has 6 positive reports
for R3.x … since you use it, would you mind submitting an updated HCL
report for R4.0 please?

49

Lenovo Thinkpad X 230. I actually had issues trying to install 4.0.4. Where I first went into BIOS and discovered that Virtualization was not enabled. I tried to change it, and with multiple reboots it still had install problems. Virtualization not working. Ubuntu worked.

I tried two things at the same time. I put in a Spinning Hard Drive. Installed Windows, (gag). Then updated BIOS. Then installed Qubes 4.0.4 which worked.

I have seen issues putting in a new SDD (I bought several), where the X-230 had issues seeing the drive to install Linux.

Rather than good diagnostics; When I run put in new SSD, which gives problems. I let Windows 10 do a basic install to it. Then allow a Linux Distro to install to it. Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora are things I have used.

I do not know what I am doing to make this happen. After the first time the SSD is written to, it seems to behave, and allow one to install. Windows talks to everything.

I am guessing that anyone trying an X-230, might have to change the BIOS. Which might seem problematic to new comer.