Systems that are based on Linux are very often called Unix-like. Linux is often referred to as Unix-like. “Unix-like system” can refer to a lot of things but in most places where you may read “Unix-like system” the system being referred to is something that includes a Linux kernel.
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Now I’m a bit confused 
But eventually what you saying is that there’s a thing to call linux as unix informally, but there’s a bigger and stronger distinction between them, right??? So functionally they are similar(linux behaves as unix despite the code is different), but there’s more into the distinction as you answered(complete systems vs not etc).
Or is it I’m not getting it?
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TL;DR: Unix-like often means a Linux based system.
BSD systems and descendants of BSD systems, including illumos that was commercially developed and then released as open source (as OpenSolaris) are Unix.
Way back in the day the GNU project’s strategy was to replace one by one the individual Unix programs with copyleft software.
Some of the GNU programs were either functionally better or had better user ergonomics than their original Unix counterparts. Some SGI Irix, HP-UX, and a lot of SunOS (before it was Solaris) users would spend days downloading and compiling GNU userland software just after getting the expensive machines those proprietary Unices ran on.
In that same chapter of computing history, Linux was written with inspiration from Unix and Minix and iterated on very rapidly in the style of open source projects. There was a scare about lawsuits (thanks AT&T…) over copyright and challenges matching the necessary talent to develop GNU HURD at speed. Many who attempted to run Linux organically reached for the GNU userland software. The rest is history and here we are today.
See the documentary Revolution OS. You are on this forum so you will probably appreciate this documentary.
Redox will obsolete Unix and Unix-like (Linux based) systems or systems that include Linux as a key part (such as Qubes) soon enough.
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Sun Microsystems eventually released OpenSolaris. illumos is the fork of OpenSolaris.
“including illumos that was commercially developed” is a enough of a technically true statement. But those who care for this issue are pedantic (as they should be) and will probably take issue with it (as they should) ; hence this subsequent comment providing this further clarification.
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Yeah you got it.
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Wow, thanks.
Didn’t know about Revolution OS documentary, will watch it.
This shocked me a bit 
I’m just getting into qubes after starting to use linux and now you’re saying redox will come and replace it? Come on!
Is this something you discuss in the closed forum?
I never heard of Redox, kinda interesting, even though I have high doubts it’s going to replace linux/qubes soon, but my “soon” and yours may vary. I mean they will need mature system, hardware support, applications compatibilities, and a lot of dev time etc.
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Qubes is a giant kludge. Qubes is what works right now.
Redox has a microkernel architecture. Drivers run in userspace on Redox. Redox can isolate drivers. Qubes isolates drivers by running another copy of Linux dedicated to a device, such as with sys-usb.
Linux can run drivers in userspace but Linux is not intended to do this so drivers in userspace is relatively uncommon.
Redox had some recent developments that open the door for much of the existing library of FOSS software to compile and run and Redox.
For proprietary applications that run on Linux that are attractive to some users such as Discord’s desktop client (as an example), these applications can run in a VM much like how an app can run in a qube. These can be run in a “seamless” way where the pedestrian user can remain ignorant to how the app is run.
Such applications that are proprietary for which source code is not available might run on a Linux compatibility layer, if that layer is developed.
Either way, proprietary apps (for Windows or Linux) will run and users won’t know the difference. Users in corporate environments have been running Windows apps (Microsoft Office) for about two decades with no clue that Linux (or something else) is underneath.
Most future Redox users won’t have major problems with hardware support and won’t know they are using Redox. They will buy a computer that “already works”, which is what ChromeOS (Chromebook) users don’t know they are running Linux.
Just like how even most programmers who drop $4,000 on a Macbook are almost-all oblivious to XNU and its Mach roots. The rest who are not technical users are still high quality users because they pay money to companies that pay engineers to work on things and make sure those things work well.
The faux-technical enthusiast crowd will have challenges with hardware support. The middle of the bell curve users such as heavy consumers of entertainment apps (games) like to think they matter a lot, but they do not.
The users who are not technical pay for computers that come in boxes and already work. The users who are technical (like actually technical) contribute with code, documentation, and genuinely helping other users.
The people who can boot Linux or BSD from a USB stick on the latest Framework laptop love to share their opinions and think their passionate opinions on their favorite laptop matter (they do not).
In the big picture the middle of the bell curve really does not matter all (with exception to entertainment app (game) developers) and all they do is make a bunch of noise posting extremely low quality content to PC gamer forums and Youtube.
GrapheneOS aims to move beyond a hardened fork of the Android Open Source Project. Achieving the goals requires moving away from relying on the Linux kernel
It needs to move towards a microkernel-based model
GrapheneOS is already ahead of the curve on this issue.
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Because Redox is implemented in Rust, the “hard” parts have already been partly done or done, and Redox draws mindshare from talent who care deeply that Redox is inspired by SeL4 and Plan9, Redox will continue to have progression within a small number years that takes other systems decades.
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When you eventually use Redox, all of the powerful functionality and advantages you get with Qubes will just be there, for you and users who are not technical alike. You will just use your computer and maybe interact with some extra options under the “advanced” tab or interact with the system’s APIs if you choose to write scripts instead.
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TL;DR: Redox will be able to compartmentalize the applications you want to use without sacrificing the reliability we have now, probably with even better reliability, and much much more efficiently.
The critical missing part is the applications you want to use. The gaps will be closed and probably before this decade is over.
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From my point of view, it wasn’t pretty.
But the mods have been great about it.
Cheers to all.
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vlc buffer_overflow.gz
buffer_overflow.gz (1.3 MB)
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@avoca buddy I’ve been using this OS for the last 5 years.
5 years of:
- hardware instability (os freezes, random crashes, memory leaks, installation impossible in some modern hardware)
- forced myself to backup before any dom0 or template upgrade, the brick could be around the corner
- lets not talk about major os version upgrades, you’ll need to completely reinstall the OS
- being forced to reinstall the OS every 18/24 months after countless customizations, being told by whoever decided it to be this way that we should all learn salt to ease in the moving process - would be easier to master ansible for christs sake
- the docs are entirely made at best effort by the (non existent) community
- theres not one word from management - nobody to held accountable.
- yet dev and engineer salaries are high.
- look at my username - it says it all
- telling IT friends my main OS is qubes, they ask how come my head still have hair on it, i tell them its a wig because qubes frustation stole 'em all from me
Mind you I’m a beyond average senior IT enterprise admin with many years on my shoulders.
Qubes is for proficient sysadmins. when they say its for journalists it’s a joke. A journalist would be tracked in a couple of hours after booting this os because of neglected and known privacy leaks.
security with outright privacy leaks built in is a joke.
I think I’m about to switch to something else. its the last drop for me.
EDIT: to be fair, even with all this bs, this OS is still f***ing great and, from what I’m aware, has no relevant competitors to date.
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- Prevent Qubes OS clearnet leaks - #43 by OvalZero > by default appvms connected to clearnet sys-firewall / sys-net will fetch updates from qubes repository, any ISP can see qubes OS is being used
- How to hide the fact that I'm Qubes OS from Telegram - #74 by Qubie > by default any software running will clearly see “Qubes” as the xen hypervisor
- Changing time zone on qubes > during qubes os install you select your time zone. that time zone will leak into every appvm or standalone qube even if they are connected to sys-whonix. lets say you’re from vienna, when you browse a website (any browser except tor-browser) the javascript can see the local time of the browser’s machine, leaking your real geographical location even if you are in appvm using vpn or tor.
its not just default behavior, there is no recognizement whatsoever of the implications of these privacy leaks. If you care you have to take care them by yourself.
@unman said the time sync fetching from sys-net can also be used to fingerprint Qubes OS, although I don’t see how that is possible; he never replied to people seeking further explanation. Just goes to show how much the Qubes OS team gives a F* about privacy stuff.
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Haha… thanks. I really appreciate your message and take heart from your sentiment.
I take note of what your saying and accept that, at least for the time being, Qubes, and probably Kicksecure/Whonix, are not my cup of tea.
Having said that, I really do support FOSS and anyone prepared to back themselves in what is obviously a pretty thankless environment gets my vote of appreciation. And ultimately that was the intent of my post.
No doubt your involvement over the year’s has helped the project mature and progress. Best of luck.
And, thanks again for taking the time to drop me a line. Appreciated.
Cheers
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Those “leaks” have nothing to do with privacy.
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@qubes_is_frustration, all of the problems you listed are already handled for a narrower audience that consumes a private software release channel provided by commercial entities.
The open distro called Qubes is for a broader audience.
This is true of every open source software package.
The customers paying a firm, such as the one I work with, have a different experience.
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I must also add, because I must give credit where credit is due, there are journalists (I know some of them) who can and do start off with vanilla Qubes without exposing to the local ISP (even the ISP router on the LAN) they are using Qubes who also do not step into the timezone pitfall. These are people who are serious about what they are doing. They choose to be careful. And, even if this sounds “harsh”, it is the true reality simply that: they are not idiots.
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Enjoy reading the topic ahead of me.