Is Qubes a good option for me?

General Discussion
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Hi all, I’d like to ask you if using Qubes makes sense for me or should I just use something simpler. I have no idea of programming or Linux, but I can use a terminal, write down commands and follow instructions. With the aid of Claude I have set up a Proxmox server and a Bitcoin node.

After the Coldcard bug I want to build a multi-sig multi-vendor set up. I have a PC with windows which I use for everyday tasks, I assume is compromised. I need to buy a laptop to use as the multisig coordinator, and I have two options

  1. use the laptop absolutely only for Bitcoin

  2. install Qubes and use that laptop for Bitcoin but also, sometimes, for other things like working, browsing, banking, etc.

I also have the motivation to learn it, because I think in the coming years, cybersecurity will be much more important than in the past. What do you think? Thanks in advance!

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I think it is too much of a jump. Perhaps just use Linux (fedora is good) on the laptop. You will learn a lot that can also be useful on qubes if you go that route down the road.

I’ve helped friends do what you are considering doing but they need frequent help from me on best way to architect things and, most importantly, what to do when things break. Just one example would be what os you want to use the multi sig coordinator on. Tor makes most sense so you’d use whonix workstation but then you will find that sudo won’t work in your user login.

Two more examples. My usb ports stopped working and I needed to troubleshoot it (new kernel was the issue). Then my graphics card had an issue with the kernel and I needed to use old version until the fix came through weeks later. These were two different kernels and different os (one was sys-usb kernel, the other dom0 kernel in grub). I just want you to know what kind of effort you are getting into :slight_smile: I do find that my Thinkpad has less of these problems but there isn’t really any agreed upon usable new Thinkpad currently.

Also, choosing a laptop that works well with qubes can be tricky. The two main choices are either an expensive new laptop like novacustom or Thinkpad. The latter used to have a fairly easy choice of t480 but now it is 8 years old and newer ThinkPads often have incompatibility issues

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You need Linux knowledge to use Qubes, since dom0 and most qubes will be running Linux. Doing both at the same time (learning Linux and learning Qubes OS, while also using it in production) might be too big of a task. I would consider my Linux knowledge as quite good, nevertheless switching to Qubes OS was a huge task, with a lot of frustrating problems to solve.

I would go with this solution and a hardware wallet until you get used to Linux. You can switch to Qubes later.

What could possibly go wrong?

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There’s no easy answer. You may start to use Qubes with little or no Linix knowledge, like I did years ago, coming from Windows and OpenVMS. But doing that in a successful way requires a lot of reading documentation, testing, and the time to learn. During that first phase, you will need to learn some Linux concepts, but you can get along with fairly moderate Linux knowledge. In 8 years, I never needed to learn bash, and I still survived: :grin:

But you have to be patient and willing to invest the effort. Using a laptop that is not the newest one will also be helpful.

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Motivation, love of learning, a bit of patience, and a machine that’s proven on the HCL are sufficient to leapfrog Linux and begin a journey with Qubes.

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Hi,

The answer is, as always, yours, and depends far more on who you are and how you act than anything else.

Some advises:

  • Backup often, in secure ways (encrypted, of course);
  • If you are wealthy enough, consider having (and maintaining) several workstations.
  • Upgrade as soon as possible (and BEFORE starting anything else).
  • Never ever leave your workstation anywhere public.
  • Reinstall often.
  • take notes on everything you do (to be able to get back to it when necessary, in particular for emergencies => On a dedicated, separate, secured machine and/or storage unit).

If possible: learn Qubes OS on a separate machine while being able to do your “day job” and “day business” on another.

and, of course:

RTFM (several times, at different steps of your learning curve). :wink:

Cheers,

PS : Qubes OS is a very easy to understand and to use if you have a “clean” mindset and REALLY try to understand its logic.
If you “don’t break your Qubes OS”, you should be happy and serene.

PPS : I never ever trust AI for troubleshooting.
I take what it “says”, process it internally, compare to other sources, etc.
But I never do what it says my “eyes wide shut”.

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Not to dissuade a new comer. Protecting ones Bit Coin, money, in my household demands the quickest means to get secure.

If your goal being is to create a secure means of handling Bitcoin. Consider, Perhaps look at using Tails OS to handle Bit Coin transactions. Which I admit I have not set up Tails OS to do.

I would suspect some nation-states would disapprove of private citizens using Tails OS. I live in the United States. This US government is a financial contributor to Tails, so it can be used by “Whistle Blowers” to report on illegal dealings of others. So I feel safe using Tails OS. The current government not targeting really old natural born citizens at this time. Yet.

"Tails (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) is a portable, Debian-based operating system that runs as a live image from a USB stick rather than installing onto the host computer’s disk. It is built and maintained under the umbrella of the Tor Project, a nonprofit, and is distributed as free and open-source software. Its design goal is simple to state and hard to achieve: let someone use an untrusted computer for sensitive work and walk away leaving no forensic trace behind.

from Tails OS Meaning | Bitcoin Mining Glossary

Tails is usually installed to a USB Flash Drive. (Of course do not use a corrupted Computer to download and install Tails to the USB Stick) Then boot a computer to the USB stick which has Tails on it. Documentation on the Tails OS website. Also Whonix has a lot of very good documentation on a similar - secure use of computers.

Other places where you may have malware. The modem/router you are connecting with is not so old that the modem/router firmware can not be corrupted. Then re-install the Firmware that you are using and set a new Password. If someone on your modem/firmware likes going to -websites which might be sources of malware. Video sharing websites, porn websites. Places which might try to compromise your modem/router, as well as your computer Firmware/Operating System.

Finding a new computer to use Qubes, buying it, installing Qubes, Implementing Qubes for the first time, while bringing up your knowledge level to using Qubes, assuming your employment is not computers, could take weeks, several evenings. I feel the documentation is well written. It is hard to swallow the whole thing directly. Not to dissuade a new comer. Welcome.

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I’ve done many tests of artificial intelligence taking the perspective of security (in various areas: web dev, system, networking…), and what I’ve observed is really catastrophic.

You must therefore never use AI for things related to security, unless you’re competent in security and can, of course, correct the serious errors that are suggested yourself.

Artificial intelligence has no awareness of what it does or what it suggests, nor of the consequences of either. (so far, afaik)

Cheers,

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Just by reading your OP I can tell you are ready for the Qubes OS. I could bet on it.

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Erm. The answer is an obvious no. You will go through all of this, have your secure wallet on a vault go through the forum make it as ‘secure’ as possible by following all sorts of guides. You will run a simple dom0-update crash qubes, be locked in the recovery shell. You will go mad trying to chroot into your broken qubesos install to recover your offline Vaulted super secure wallet and you will lose all of your money! :rofl:

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You’re surely talking about Windows…

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I think your motivation needs to be put to the test.

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In my X years of using Qubes OS, I’ve never had a dom0 stable update break my installation fully (only small bugs). If you’re on testing then that’s a different situation.

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Then you were lucky. I clearly remember this huge one, for example.

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I agree, being willing to learn and having patience probably matters the most.

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