High entry threshold - an obligation or rather an option?

General Discussion
1

Hi,
I use Qubes on a daily basis and enjoy it, it makes me very happy.
However, its high entry threshold is quite tiresome and for this reason I am not able to recommend it to other people.
Reasons:

  • Will the people I recommend Qubes to be able to solve the problems they encounter?
  • How will I explain why Qubes is a bit difficult to use compared to Windows?
  • etc.
  • etc.

Suggested solutions:
** GUI.**
Why did Qubes move away from KDE (which resembles Windows) to Xfce? Why doesn’t Qubes give a choice of environment, but even imposes Xfce?

Qubes on KDE resembles a system from Microsoft.
For the typical KDE user:

  • program support
  • file handling
  • support for removable media

are simple things, looking “almost like windows.” For such users, Qubes would be a pleasant, efficient and faster system than Windows.

What does Qubes do to make it easier for novice users to enter the Qubes world?
Why has the interactive guide to Qubes that was presented (I think a year ago?) still not been introduced?
Should we require the user to read the documentation?

In my opinion, this should not be the case.

My suggestion is:
1. give the user a choice: do they want to use KDE or rather Xfce?

2. Introduce the principle of “I install Qubes and keep working”, which would be to create a program “SmartQubes”, the icon of which would be next to the start icon. When the icon is pressed, a simple fly-out interface would be displayed with questions like “What applications do you usually use?” and the choices would be e.g. Firefox, Gimp, Keepass, Outlook. After selecting, for example, Firefox/Gimp/Keepass, the program would offer to automatically install and configure Qubes with the ready-made applications Gimp, Keepass, Firefox. If “Outlook” was selected, Qubes would display information according to which the user would be able to easily and quickly install Windows and Outlook.

3. desktops, AppVM, TemplateVM - what does this actually mean for a new user? Unknown.
Wouldn’t it be a good option to add icons with question marks next to each Qubes option, which would display brief explanations when hovered over with the mouse cursor?

4. maybe you would introduce an option to automatically and periodically display various Qubes tips?
Example: girlfriend has Qubes, uses firefox, libreoffice, thunderbird, etc. - in general she has a lot of open programs on one bar. Qubes detects this anomaly and displays a balloon with the message
“Did you know that…
Qubes allows you to quickly switch between virtual desktops, in which you can spread xx applications…?”

5. a widget on the desktop that looks like a “yellow note”, which would display a new piece of advice every day on how to use the Qubes system.

What do you guys think about this?

2

Good read: How to pitch Qubes OS? - #15 by fsflover

And to add to this: there are alternative menus that reseble windows:

You still have the choice to switch back to KDE: KDE (desktop environment) | Qubes OS

There’s already a documentation just for that, with videos, written guides, thorough explanations on the forum… : Documentation | Qubes OS

Multi-purpose templates already exist though, look at how bloated the standard debian and fedora vms are.

Imho it’s all about getting the hand of it, reading the docs as you progress and searching for what you need. There are more pressing issues to be resolved rather than adding features to facilitate newbies, when there are already well-written resources available. Again, personal opinion.

1 Like
3

Blockquote
Good read: How to pitch Qubes OS? - #15 by fsflover
And to add to this: there are alternative menus that reseble windows:

This is not the solution to the problem I have in mind. So in your opinion, Qubes should always be this complicated, and the high entry threshold is the user’s fault because he doesn’t read the documentation? If you were going to implement Qubes in an enterprise environment, your suggestion would be to read the documentation?

Blockquote
You still have the choice to switch back to KDE: KDE (desktop environment) | Qubes OS

Is the KDE environment actively supported by Qubes? Are you able to guarantee that KDE will run reliably at all times, and that KDE supports all the features that are in XFce?

Blockquote
Multi-purpose templates already exist though, look at how bloated the standard debian and fedora vms are.
Imho it’s all about getting the hand of it, reading the docs as you progress and searching for what you need. There are more pressing issues to be resolved rather than adding features to facilitate newbies, when there are already well-written resources available. Again, personal opinion.

I don’t like your answer. Who exactly are you that you are stating on behalf of Qubes that there are other pressing problems and suggesting that the problem is that people who have trouble operating the system should take the plunge?

4

Why not? It is already implemented in some enterprise environments: Piloting SecureDrop Workstation for Qubes OS

I’m not a maintainer, I can’t answer that. It’s like asking me: will Internet Explorer run reliably forever? Surely the devs at Windows thought so.

I am exactly no one, that’s why I took extra care in specifying twice that it was a personal opinion.

Isn’t it the point of making a thread in “General Discussion” on a Forum? To gather opinions?

5

AFAIK it’s in the main Qubes replsotories, so yes.

Qubes will likely always be more complicated, because the user has to change their workflows in order to benefit from this OS. No compartmentalization will help you if you run everything in dom0. However it doesn’t mean that you can’t make it more user-friendly and decrease the effort of reading the docs.

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6

Qubes is more complicated under the hood, and it can be hard to fix when it breaks, but I don’t feel that Qubes OS is vastly more complicated in terms of everyday use than traditional Linux. It’s at least possible to keep things simple and still get a benefit from using Qubes.

You don’t really need to understand the complex parts of Qubes to use the OS, you can use Qubes without knowing anything about Xen, LUKS, etc.

7

I disagree, see my mem and pitch number 4.

Do you observe the color of the border for every window? Do you think before running anything, where exactly you are doing that? Do you plan which qubes should have access to which websites or data? If you don’t, then it’s as simple as GNU/Linux but also as secure as GNU/Linux.

Furthermore, did you ever try to configure VPN on Qubes OS and on Linux? Are you using Bluetooth with sys-audio? If you do it the easy way, it’s again as secure as on GNU/Linux.

(Well, maybe, it’s still a bit better, if you at least use sys-usb, sys-net and sys-firewall.)

No, but you have to change how you use the OS nevertheless: you have to compartmentalize your data and apps.

1 Like