For some reason I’m not being able to split threads into new discussions (only exisiting ones).
I agree with @deeplow that it’s not a big problem, because we need a forum to attract people to official Qubes OS website. However, I think it would be correct to change the title of the forum from “Qubes OS Forum” to “Qubes OS Community Forum” or just “Qubes OS Community”.
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The reason for omitting the word “community” from the name of the forum is that, elsewhere, we use that term to indicate unofficial things, e.g., “community documentation” and “community templates,” both of which have official counterparts. So, there’s a precedent for using “official” and “community” as antonyms. Since the forum is official (in the sense that it was set up by the project) as opposed to, e.g., the unofficial subreddit and the IRC and Matrix chat rooms (which were created by users), I thought it might be misleading to call it a “community forum.”
However, the fact that the forum is almost entirely moderated by users who volunteer to be mods might be a strong enough reason to add “community” (back in)to the name.
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Oh, no. Please not not another domain name change XD. (I mean, if it has to be, it has to be). I know our last move was also a hosting move. But logistics-wise it was so demanding that I’d refrain from changing it now 
.
Also, this is something we have known since day 1. They official qubes staff for communication is a one-person team called Andrew David Wong 
I only suggested to change the title of the pages on the forum, not the domain name. I think the domain name is perfect.
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No, it certainly wouldn’t be a domain name change, just a name change. For example, this forum could be named one of the following:
- Qubes Forum
- Qubes OS Forum
- Qubes Community Forum
- Qubes OS Community Forum
- etc.
I think it’s currently named the first one but was previously named one of the other ones. The name could be changed to one of the versions containing the word “community.” Not too much would hinge on this, except perhaps the way it’s written on the website, in the documentation, on logos and graphics, etc.
I think it’s currently named the first one
Yes to keep the length of it in the subject header of email notifications in check. It previously was “Qubes OS Community Forum” immediately followed by the category with the effect that it rendered email subjects useless.
Before:
[Qubes OS Community Forum][Feedback/Forum Feedback] Proposal: "I think I got hacked" sub-category of "User Support"
Now:
[Qubes Forum] Proposal: "I think I got hacked" sub-category of "User Support" [Feedback/Forum Feedback]
In pictures:
I’d much rather (together with the moderators and other leaders) work on improving the FAQ, and posted rules of the forum and enforcing them to keep the standards high. Just seems like a better thing to do then slapping “Community” on it and living with it slowly becoming Reddit.
I think we are already doing a rather good job of it, let’s just keep going this way. @deeplow is an excellent moderator and between @adw, @fsflover, other leaders and myself I think we got it under control.
The new category will certainly help.
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I’m very skeptical of the idea that changing the name to make it clear that it is a ‘community’ forum will have a significant effect on these kinds of posts, and is unlikely to be worth the effort it would take in my opinion.
Most of these types of requests are from non-technical users like myself, who have threats, real or imagined, that they are far behind the learning curve in understanding and arrive at Qubes as the promoted best option to help address those concerns. The lag time between finding Qubes in this state, and actually arriving at a position of understanding exactly what Qubes protects against and what it does not, and where realistic attack surfaces are and where they are not, results in these kinds of desperation posts (I made one myself recently “Strange dependencies…”).
Having @adw take a moment to explain to me my issue and why it was unlikely in a serious manner did a lot for boosting my confidence, and I’ve since worked to improve my knowledge of Qubes and other factors. Hopefully you can differentiate those who can actually be onboarded to the journey of learning from those that will waste time and never accept your well reasoned responses. I’d suggest using the coherence of the post (accounting for 2nd language), and at least evidence of an attempt of understanding as a measurement for the value of engaging. I’ll be around for a while taking learning seriously, and that was a nice first introduction to this forum.
If you are genuinely subject to advanced attacks as a non-technical user it is a long and pretty overwhelming process to actually understand what the limitations of these attacks are, which leads to trying to blindly offload the whole process to a more technical user in lieu of patience & learning.
I think the best approach is to isolate it in its own sub-category as you said, and have a stickied post that covers what is required to collect data that can be meaningfully analyzed, and a referral to Qubes documentation explaining the importance of understanding what it protects against and what it does not, and the mistake of bugs being seen as breaches.
Hopefully this is of some value & not a massive wall of noise itself 
But I figured I can give you the perspective of hopefully a future productive Qubes community member who is beginning at this stage.
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As someone who was a teacher in the tech space and someone that was once new to Qubes, I don’t think that the name of the Forum will make a difference. However, the name of the categories can get tricky.
Example - I interpret “User Support” as “I need help / I have questions” (especially since it says “unofficial support” and that bugs go elsewhere)
General Discussion is “anything that doesn’t fit into support” which is just generalized discussions that don’t fall into the I have questions or need help.
“All around Qubes” isn’t visible to new users so this has to be disregarded in this conversation.
I agree that there should be some sort of “I got hacked” or “Misc.” But I think if we want to better support new users we should clarify what we want in User Support, and let everything else fall into other categories. Maybe User Support is described as Issues related to Qubes directly while we file other things into Questions / Misc. (Not sold on exactly what I proposed, but more thinking as I type). I’d personally like to see people feel open to asking questions / starting discussions they feel is relevant, and we can reassign the category if we feel it’s out of place.
Hope that helps provide some context from my perspective.
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Here’s another opinion.
Maybe you should take a short survey on a forum structure, or similar. Why? For example, the only tools I use here are the magnifier icon (to search my queries) and in the menu I use Latest, New and Unread. When I post new topic, I care where to post it, and that is my only interaction with categories.
I never use home page, or browse categories. So, I doubt users care at all where they can find an answer, and it may turn out that it matters only to mods (devs are rare here anyway to care, I guess).
If I wasn’t clear then, I meant this is due to mods great job here at first (thank you!), but with note that users are great too, much better then I’ve seen elsewhere.
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I certainly don’t think changing the name by itself would have any such effect. To me, it’s simply a matter of the accuracy of the name, which is a separate matter from education, enforcement, etc. However, I don’t have strong feelings about the name.
(FWIW, there could be an indirect benefit in the sense that mods would be able to point to the name in order to explain the community-moderated nature of the forum, which might help some people better understand the situation.)
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At best this would be a positive change and at worst a neutral one. Adding an additional bucket may help lots of folks. This is a difficult one in that most of the, “I got hacked” narratives tend to center around circumstantials. Suspicious behavior is neither malicious nor benign until it’s been investigated and understood. One of the best forcing functions for growth in my career was (and frankly is) participating in communities where evidence is an informal requirement for participation. The Internet, like metaphysics in a sense, is a weird place where anyone can say anything and get away with it. Unless the community decides otherwise.
I propose a section around supplying evidence be added to Welcome to the Qubes OS forum!.
It could read something like this:
Provide Evidence
When discussing technical issues - it is strongly advised that evidence be supplied. These can arrive in the form of error messages, appropriately redacted log entries, or other forms of technical details.
If this is an acceptable contribution, perhaps it would be part of the Help us help you section or just below it.
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On the evidence so far, users don’t read this welcome, or if they
do, don’t remember it.
And many users here don’t have a clue what evidence looks like, or how to
get it.
I’m not saying this isn’t a good thing to include. I don’t think it will
make any difference.
I understand the skepticism. I have my own too. There likely is not a single factor that can change the situation. But some combination.
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The reason I do think this will work, is that it gives people a clear standard to give to others who really want answers for collecting useful data. This only applies if there is some standard you can give for collecting evidence like network logging and some other forms, which as a non-technical user I have no clue if a standard is even possible to lay out. I’m not simply suggesting saying “come with evidence”.
It’s something to assure people that you aren’t just totally blowing them off, but they simply aren’t delivering enough useful information based on their rough accounts of what they observed. There will be a large number who it will do nothing for, but those largely overlap with the people who will not take no for an answer in asserting that the thing they experienced was absolutely “____” and not the more plausible explanation offered by forum members.
More reasonable posters who can be on-boarded to the Qubes journey (and broader sec) will find it more reassuring to see that if they are experiencing something, then there are clear steps they can take to collect what would be necessary to really figure it out.
Most of those types of posts (not all) are really going to be about steering people to the resources to understand exactly what Qubes protects them against, and what it does not. Those who are facing advanced threats will be able to take the steps in the future suggested to collect data that would help a real troubleshooting process take place.
The confidence of the individual that they aren’t being blown off if they are concerned, but that endless resources can’t be spent on troubleshooting without evidence I think would do positive good in inspiring confidence in Qubes & the community to at least be able to help them arrive in a reasonably secure position, if not now then in the future. The rest will always create noise regardless of what measures you put in place, so you need effective sorting mechanisms.
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