Debian 13 is here and I am itching to update my template in-place

https://www.debian.org/News/2025/20250809

I would like to get working on debian 13 as soon as possible. I also want to do an in-place upgrade, as I don’t keep track of the packages I installed (maybe I should find a command that gives me a list of that). What do you guys think? Should I wait, or should I go on with the in-place upgrade?

Btw, is qubes-specific software packages (like qvm-move, etc.) going to carry on with me into debian 13? Or are they going to have their own specific releases?

I have been using (in-place upgraded) Debian 13 templates since April:

I do not use Debian templates for ServiceVMs. But I am almost certain that all bugs related to it are already solved.

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How about this for a strategy?

Clone it. Update the clone, and play with it until you don’t have any doubts…

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@alimirjamali are you using the new debian.sources format on your debian 13 templates?

https://www.debian.org/releases/trixie/release-notes/upgrading.en.html#preparing-apt-sources-files

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Actually no. I am using the old .list format. I was not aware of this change (thanks for sharing)

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That’s how I do it and I think even the documentation recommends it. I clone templates to a new name (say, debian-12-xfcedebian-13-xfce), upgrade the cloned one then switch some or all AppVMs to the new template. If anything goes wrong, I just change the templates back. If everything works, then after a month or two I remove the old template.

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are you using this naming with your “custom” debian templates? It might cause some problem if later on you would like to download debian-13-xfce template from qubesOS repos

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@alimirjamali btw, how long (typically) does it take for the debian-13-xfce templates to be released, following debian 13 release itself?

It is hard to tell. As the decision is with Marek. But I guess it should not be very long. Since it has been under test for ever (around 5 months). Should not be very long. Maybe one or two weeks. But do not take what I say for granted.

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It’s an easy step. Clone the template, cat/paste the new sources

Types: deb
URIs: Index of /debian
Suites: trixie trixie-updates
Components: main non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg
Types: deb
URIs: Index of /debian-security
Suites: trixie-security
Components: main non-free-firmware
Signed-By: /usr/share/keyrings/debian-archive-keyring.gpg

to

/etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.sources

within the clone and add some

cd /etc/apt/sources.list.d ; cat qubes-r4.list >> debian sources

Done. apt-get update will complain about duplicate references, so one could do some

rm /etc/apt/sources.list

The rest just as follows (and already cited) …

All my printing qubes rely on minimal debian templates and it took 5mins per qube to get them switched over. It’s all working nicely. Not a single hiccup so far.

I did do an inplace upgrade of a copy of a debian-12 template to debian-13 and having multiple keyboard layout is giving me issues. While initially I can switch keyboard layouts, at some point, either after going into hibernation or using a kvm to switch the keyboard disables the actual keyboard toggle keys. Also, there is a difference in the keyboard mappings for some locals between the qubes os debian-12 and an upgraded debian-13 so there also that. Heads up for anyone using multiple keyboard layouts. I might have to switch back to debian-12 because of this

edit: additional information. In my case, the layout missing is related to french canadian keyboard. In dom0 the keyboard layout I use is French (Canada) - Canadian (intl. 1st part) but this is actually French (Canada) - Canadian (CSA) in the debian 13 template. This means that I have to constantly flip the keyboard layout in the qube instead of system wide and the keys to switch layout go dead often. I should investigate adding or renaming the layout in the debian 13 template but in the mean time, just be aware of the issue

edit2 - solution: at least for me, simply add the missing keyboard layout in /usr/share/X11/xdb/symbols/ca in the debian 13 template and it will find it and use the appropriate layout. It’s still a bit wonky when I switch with a KVM but at least a quick toggle of the system layout and it lands back on its feet