Debian is on a 2-year release cycle, most Debian users are probably looking forward to the feature updates.
Speaking for myself, I’m a ‘stable’ (sometimes ‘old-stable’ guy). I don’t want any “new” features, just security updates and NO SURPRISES. The software I use exists for decades at this point and “new” just means trouble.
But I remember always wanting the latest and “greatest”. Just lost my appetite for that along the way. I imagine Debian Stable is for people like me.
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Are there any packages in Debian 12 that are bleeding edge?
I thought Debian always was using older packages, even when a new version of the OS was released.
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Stable? I hear you.
The bleeding edge for me is my own custom configurations and the stuff I myself write. I really don’t need the OS to throw more curveballs at me.
I do want to know when a stable debian 12 minimal is out there (and wouldn’t mind knowing in advance when to expect it)…and a couple of months after that, I’ll think about upgrading.
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This release started as a copy of bullseye, and is currently in a state called testing. This means that things should not break as badly as in unstable or experimental distributions, because packages are allowed to enter this distribution only after a certain period of time has passed, and when they don’t have any release-critical bugs filed against them.
Please note that security updates for testing distribution are not yet managed by the security team. Hence, testing does not get security updates in a timely manner.
I understand the basics of the release cycle, but it does explain how new the next version is going to be.
Eg. LibreOffice gets updated from 7.0.4 to 7.4.5, but the current version is 7.5.3, you are not getting the latest and greatest by upgrading to Debian 12.
From what I understand is that pretty much the standard for Debian, you are never getting the newest version, even if you update to the next release of the OS.
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There is also an experimental distribution for those who want the bleeding edge with LibreOffice 7.5.4 for example.
silly thoughts as the topic progresses :
if you really enjoy pain change the apt repos to sid and update the template, wonder how many days the template will survive 
or you just clone a standalone machine over and over, which isnt space and enegry efficient as you save each vm individually and updates goes the same… also the huge advantage of APP VMs will be lost but you’re going to have a bleeding edge sid installation
For those interested, you can track the progress toward a Debian 12 template here:
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It looks as though they expected to be finished with it…last April? So it has been done for over a year?
Debian 12 itself has not been released, but should be (according to wikipedia) on 10 June.
The same page states that security support for Debian 11 ends July of 2024 so that gives us over a year to switch (minus the time for the Qubes team to create the templates)
They release every two years, and typically in Q2, you know Trixie is coming in 2025 and Forky in 2027.
You can test the release long before the freeze and release date is announced.
I like that, and am still running Debian-8 “Jessie” on an old computer in dual boot with Windows 7. Both offline, Jessie even full offline install (all three disks). There is still time to upgrade Debian in Qubes, bookworm is now stable, bullseye oldstable and stretch oldoldstable.
But as soon as we read in Qubes news ther is a template for debian-12 I’ll do the dist-upgrade in place just to be sure. Can wait untill next year but I don’t think it will take that long.
Just wanted to chime in and say that having R4.2 and Debian 12 ready at the same time makes my job so much easier, since doing a distro upgrade is just a few steps removed from reinstalling the whole OS.
My heart goes out to pure Fedora users.
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Used to do that months ago updating to testing… until an update just made the VM unbootable. Did not spend much time on investigating what broke, but likely recent upstream packages replace qubesos-patched ones and qubesd does not see its friends any more…
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Is debian 12 going to be made available for Qubes 4.1? Or do I have to wait for the release of Qubes 4.2 in order to start using debian 12? I really need the updated software versions that debian 12 brings with it.
You can install Debian 12 from the testing repository using the Terminal Emulator in dom0.
$ qvm-template --enablerepo=qubes-templates-itl-testing install debian-12
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Is there a drawback to installing debian 12 template from the testing repo? If I start using the testing template, am I going to have to switch to the stable template once debian 12 gets out of testing in qubes os?
the template itself doesnt have a testing repo active or anything. the template isnt just release-able. as far as i understood qubes 4.1 wont get debian 12 anymore. maybe i am wrong but i would be very hesitant to put to much love into a template for a soon to be upgraded qubes os 4.2 where you probably going to get new templates.
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The only drawback I know is that it is still being tested, so it may not be ready for production.
I do not think you will need to switch repositories, although by that time Qubes OS 4.2.0 will likely be released and you may want to consider upgrading to it.
Yes. It’s currently in testing:
You should be aware of what testing entails:
Usually that is not the case. I don’t recall it happening in the past. However, something like that is always a possibility with things that are still in testing, however remote the likelihood.
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