Qubes ISO with Debian 12 templates

How long after the release of Debian 12 will it take for the ISOs to be updated with Debian 12 and Whonix 17?

I know that Whonix takes 1 month to update to the next release of Debian but I am mostly curious about how often the ISO is updated.

2023-06-10 - Debian 12 release date.

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I don’t think anyone knows at this point. There isn’t a fixed timetable for things like that.

I suppose a similar question is when the debian-12 and debian-12-minimal templates will become available for people who are already running QubesOS.

(I don’t imagine you know the answer to this one either, not even in terms relative to the release date for deb12.)

https://yum.qubes-os.org/r4.1/templates-itl-testing/rpm/qubes-template-debian-12-4.0.6-202304290933.noarch.rpm early templates are there but didnt work for me so far.

why is this so important for you? debian bullseye will be supported many months after the release of bookworm, you dont face a securty threat instantly at the release day.

Debian is on a 2-year release cycle, most Debian users are probably looking forward to the feature updates.

Speaking for myself, I’m a ‘stable’ (sometimes ‘old-stable’ guy). I don’t want any “new” features, just security updates and NO SURPRISES. The software I use exists for decades at this point and “new” just means trouble.

But I remember always wanting the latest and “greatest”. Just lost my appetite for that along the way. I imagine Debian Stable is for people like me.


Are there any packages in Debian 12 that are bleeding edge?

I thought Debian always was using older packages, even when a new version of the OS was released.


Stable? I hear you.

The bleeding edge for me is my own custom configurations and the stuff I myself write. I really don’t need the OS to throw more curveballs at me.

I do want to know when a stable debian 12 minimal is out there (and wouldn’t mind knowing in advance when to expect it)…and a couple of months after that, I’ll think about upgrading.

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This release started as a copy of bullseye, and is currently in a state called testing. This means that things should not break as badly as in unstable or experimental distributions, because packages are allowed to enter this distribution only after a certain period of time has passed, and when they don’t have any release-critical bugs filed against them.

Please note that security updates for testing distribution are not yet managed by the security team. Hence, testing does not get security updates in a timely manner.

Debian -- Debian “bookworm” Release Information

I understand the basics of the release cycle, but it does explain how new the next version is going to be.

Eg. LibreOffice gets updated from 7.0.4 to 7.4.5, but the current version is 7.5.3, you are not getting the latest and greatest by upgrading to Debian 12.

From what I understand is that pretty much the standard for Debian, you are never getting the newest version, even if you update to the next release of the OS.


There is also an experimental distribution for those who want the bleeding edge with LibreOffice 7.5.4 for example.

silly thoughts as the topic progresses :
if you really enjoy pain change the apt repos to sid and update the template, wonder how many days the template will survive :slight_smile:
or you just clone a standalone machine over and over, which isnt space and enegry efficient as you save each vm individually and updates goes the same… also the huge advantage of APP VMs will be lost but you’re going to have a bleeding edge sid installation :slight_smile:

For those interested, you can track the progress toward a Debian 12 template here:


It looks as though they expected to be finished with it…last April? So it has been done for over a year?

Debian 12 itself has not been released, but should be (according to wikipedia) on 10 June.

The same page states that security support for Debian 11 ends July of 2024 so that gives us over a year to switch (minus the time for the Qubes team to create the templates)

They release every two years, and typically in Q2, you know Trixie is coming in 2025 and Forky in 2027.

You can test the release long before the freeze and release date is announced.

I like that, and am still running Debian-8 “Jessie” on an old computer in dual boot with Windows 7. Both offline, Jessie even full offline install (all three disks). There is still time to upgrade Debian in Qubes, bookworm is now stable, bullseye oldstable and stretch oldoldstable.
But as soon as we read in Qubes news ther is a template for debian-12 I’ll do the dist-upgrade in place just to be sure. Can wait untill next year but I don’t think it will take that long.

Just wanted to chime in and say that having R4.2 and Debian 12 ready at the same time makes my job so much easier, since doing a distro upgrade is just a few steps removed from reinstalling the whole OS.

My heart goes out to pure Fedora users.

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Used to do that months ago updating to testing… until an update just made the VM unbootable. Did not spend much time on investigating what broke, but likely recent upstream packages replace qubesos-patched ones and qubesd does not see its friends any more…

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Is debian 12 going to be made available for Qubes 4.1? Or do I have to wait for the release of Qubes 4.2 in order to start using debian 12? I really need the updated software versions that debian 12 brings with it.

You can install Debian 12 from the testing repository using the Terminal Emulator in dom0.

$ qvm-template  --enablerepo=qubes-templates-itl-testing install debian-12