Privacy laptop ranking

General Discussion
1

I want to buy a privacy laptop but i cant really decide which one is the best between purism librem, insurgo privacybeast, and nitrokey

2 Likes
2

That’s interesting: thank you.

If you want advice, you must provide more information. E.g. -
What is it you want from your laptop?
What type of applications do you want to run?
What are your priorities?
What is your budget?
Where are you based?

Give us something to work with.

I never presume to speak for the Qubes team.
When I comment in the Forum or in the mailing lists I speak for myself.

2 Likes
3
  1. Security
  2. N/A
  3. Privacy and security
  4. Im down to spend up 2000-3000 USD
  5. EU
1 Like
4

There’s no “best” laptop as it depends on your own requirement and expectations.

Personally since I love supporting Open source projects I bought several laptops from Insurgo and Purism.

So there’s my own opinions :

  • I’ve always had a good relationship with Insurgo. The delivery was very quick. I feel like they are honest.
    I really never really had any problems and the only time I had, customer service was there.

So yes I’d recommend this company without worries.

With Purism it’s just the opposite :pensive:. I have never seen a company as dishonest as this one. :no_mouth:

Although I have supplied several HCLs and have always said that personally I had no problem with the Librems hardware that I have and had, the reviews on this company are completely different things.

First I had to wait more than 2 years to receive my Librem 14 v1. I asked several times to cancel the order for a refund but it was never accepted. The delivery was even longer for my Librem 15 v4

I’m not the only one saying that Purism’s customer service is very bad. You can see all the posts on Reddit about this subject. How the hell do you people stay in business? Not for long I suspect.

I like to put it honestly, this company is into over marketing “Privacy” BS without actually saying it the way it should.

They take people for idiots. :face_with_peeking_eye: It works with those who don’t have much knowledge in the subject, but it’s not the case for everyone.

A perfect example is simply the fact that they sell their “Librem 5” and add “A Security and Privacy Focused Phone.”

Any security expert knows that those claims are completely false and misleading.

And yes, any up-to-date Android smartphone is much more secure than this scam.

The same could be said for their laptop. The only thing they did on their latest Librem 14 v1 is to disable (not completely) the IME via the HAP bit that was found by Dmitry Sklyarov HAP Bit . They also developed PureOs which is actually not really secure as they try to advertise.

I’m sure that without proper security mechanims we can’t expect our computers to be private. Security mechanisms are essential for ensuring privacy in today’s digital age.

No “Privacy” “Private computer” can be achived without Security.

I could go on much longer but that’s not the point of the question…

For these reasons I find this company to be extremely dishonest. They really have to take people for idiots to have the audacity to say that their Librem 14v1 is the most secure computer in the world.

Also we shouldn’t forget the past drama with Qubes Os, hoping to save money on their certification laptops.

Note that I’m not really a beginner in bios moding, I myself contributed to develop a lot of projects. Therefore I have several computers at home where I install and test firmware myself and don’t need any company for installing Free open source firmware on my computer.
But as said above, it is my duty to support the projects that seem interesting to me for the community.

You can provide more infomations about what are your requirements for a laptop running Qubes Os. :wink:

5 Likes
5

Does it has to be a laptop?

2 Likes
6

Thank you so much for the detailed response, the reason i considered purism was beacuse of Pureboot, which i thought would add an extra layer of security.

2 Likes
7

No, i would prefer a laptop but its not necessary, my main concern is security

1 Like
8

You’re very welcome :upside_down_face:

Every computer has it’s own downsides. That being said, there are some computers that are known to work better than others with Qubes.

Novacustom laptops are very promising. :wave:

  • They offer very powerful laptops.

  • Based in the Netherlands, so delivery should be very quick.

  • They provide Open source firmware with the Dasharo/Coreboot UEFI on some models like the NS70 Series

  • They ship some laptops (NS51 Series) with the CSME =(Intel management Engine) disabled.

They seems to be honest, they don’t pretend to do what they can’t do. Wessel klein

Screenshot from 2023-04-11 02-04-43
Screenshot from 2023-04-11 02-04-43458Ă—697 276 KB

(NovaCustom Ceo) seems to be a nice guy :wink:

Keep in mind that I haven’t bought any of their laptop, so my recommendation are only based on others reviews. One of my friend bought the NS70 laptop that he received withing 3 days, and he’s very happy with it. (He is not running Qubes Os tough!)

Also you should know that some kind of human being change their behaviors, policies when they see millions of dollars in front of them. :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth: That’s an important information to keep in mind.

My top recommendation would be ThinkPads, known for their exceptional robustness, Linux/Qubes Os compatibility and durability. :+1:

There’s no need to buy your computer from a “Privacy” company to have a private computer.

You may also be interested in the new Qubes-certified Desktop which I ordered the last month but still not delivered. :grinning:

I hope that those recommendations will help you find what’s best for you. You should do your own research as you’re the only one that know what you’ll do with your computer. :grin:

Don’t solely rely on opinions from strangers on the internet, like me. :innocent:

4 Likes
9

X2100 from xyte.ch

1 Like
10

Thank you again for the detailed response, u helped me a lot

1 Like
11

@sabindev If you would like some extra privacy/security (by sacrificing some of performance), you may consider the AMD no-PSP coreboot-supported PCs like Lenovo G505S : quad-core A10-5750M CPU and up to 16GB RAM , no Intel ME / AMD PSP, works fine with Qubes thanks to a working IOMMU, and doesn’t suffer from Intel-only 20+ vulnerabilities like Meltdown and Zombieload (for which the security-crippling patches are required and even have to disable the Hyperthreading). You may also consider A88XM-E desktop board with A10-6700 / A10-6800K CPU , etc. Also, check out my earlier posts about these matters

1 Like
12

Late to the party, but I want to share my experience with the Purism Librem.

The Wi-Fi card is connected via PCI. This is a good thing on first sight. But then, there is the button to deactivate it. The QubesOS kernel does not support hot plug. Yes, you can disable the card while the system is running. Yes, you can re-enable it while the system is running. But, you have to enable it when booting up the system. If you forgot to do so, you have to reboot due to the lack of hot plug.

2 Likes
13

Any one considering buying from Purism might like to factor in that ,
once again, they are raising shareholder funds to buy inventory, with
long wait times on delivery.
I’ve made my views on the company clear in the past. This doesn’t look
like a business I would want to risk my money with just now.

I never presume to speak for the Qubes team. When I comment in the Forum or in the mailing lists I speak for myself.
1 Like
14

Regrettably I came to the same conclusion too late.

I’m reasonably happy with my librem 13 (it’s slow, but not broken), but my phone is a $2000 paperweight because it won’t work on my network. All that after extra years of waiting.

1 Like
15

It’s called a “zero trace” they also make 100% secure phones. You’re welcome (they have kill switches, and also have an option to put a USB fob in it, and the second you pull the USB fob out of it all data and information self-destruct….) = $3000

1 Like
16

I also recommend NovaCustom. Happy customer of theirs. Just be sure to check the cpu with ark for what you want to do. If you have a proton mail, pgp or signal, they can send you pictures of the tamper seals and glitter over the screw holes. Their customer support is really good and they have their own forum which they’re active on.

If evil maid is in your threat model, GitHub - proninyaroslav/blink-comparison: Simplifies comparing photos of tamper-evident seals and patterns using your eyes · GitHub is a great app. If your phone is de-googled android, the github repo works with obtainium.

There was this issue, but looks like they fixed it. Haven’t personally tested the fix yet. Not sure they even sell that hardware anymore. Sound and Video stutter. S3 sleep temporarily fixes it. · Issue #10616 · QubesOS/qubes-issues · GitHub

2 Likes
17

The primary concerns are

Intel ME

Bios malice

Being functional

All in all I see the thinkpad x230 librebooted to be the best option. It has a fairly neutered Intel ME supports 16G RAM and can run all free software. New versions of libreboot support full disk encryption including /boot. You can even not install a bootloader and use the one in your ROM via seabios.

1 Like
18

Get a beefy thinkpad. Don’t even think about “Linux Laptop” or “Security Focused Laptops” all the companies in that space are grifters selling overpriced trash.
Every single one of these companies has abysmal quality control, shitty support and false promises.
Even if interpreting these charitably, they don’t have the resources to actually do good aftercare, therefore they will, if their first hardware is not coming out perfect, be in a horrible support backlog instantly. Perfect first hardware releases don’t happen. That eats money away from making revenue, that is needed to stay in the market, because if they don’t keep buying by volume, they lose their business partnerships.
But now the employees and owners want to keep their income. They don’t have big savings because they just built a company. Job-switch is high risk now. So they will do the only two things that is easy: Lie through their teeth to promote more sales. Ignore existing owners. OR raise money from VC and become chained to the lenders, needing to enshittifty in while.

The war against independent general purpose computers must be fought in the political layer. We lost the war in the technical and market layers.

This whole Intel ME deactivation stuff is a smokescreen on modern devices. It does not give you any practical security gain but you lose usage quality provided by ME.
It would be better if management processors had an owner-sovereign OS or would not exist. But hardware that does this does not practically exist with Intel or AMD.

Ah shit I necroed

Still new proving the point:

1 Like
19

I own a NovaCustom laptop and have only positive things to say about the process of getting it and using it. Fair pricing, honest communication, stable hardware. I’ve edited and flashed the firmware guided by the online documentation and it worked more-or-less first try. Okay, one critique I have is that the trackpad is pretty mediocre compared to, say, an Apple laptop. But NovaCustom does not deny/whitewash this point, there is no mystery about the sourcing or quality of the frame/chassis or other components. I wish them success.

4 Likes