I have been reading through the community recommended computers list and most of the models there seem pretty old now. I am trying to find the latest and most modern laptop that will run Qubes OS without needing to make any adjustments or workarounds.
I would really appreciate hearing what the community currently recommends if someone wants a newer machine that works smoothly with Qubes OS right out of the box. If there is a specific model or generation that people trust the most today please let me know.
Hi, the answer is somewhat problematic as it is very general and ambiguous, but in general terms Qubes OS has fewer problems with Nvidia GPUs; I donât recommend AMD.
Definitely triple check on the forum before buying. Got an AMD laptop with a bunch of issues and Iâll be stuck with it for years now. At least it was dirt cheap
Definitely take a look at used ThinkPads in your area. You might get super lucky!
I read another comment on here that Qubes is unlikely to work well on any machine younger than 2 years old since newer hardware requires changes in the OS to get working properly.
I think certified hardware is the way to go, even if itâs a bit oudated
I have three laptops in current daily usage and college works.
All older than three years, with one reaching five years.
Lenovo x3, Dell x1, all with Intel i7 CPU.
Upgraded to SSD and minim32GB, recommended 64Gb ((well,that was before the RAM & SSD AI great price (re)set )).
All working fine up to 4.3.rc4
Cannot justify upgrade hardware and budget rather spend on contributing to certain FOSS providers.
Iâve had a nearly pain free experience with several generations of Dellâs Precision Mobile laptops since Qubes 3.2. These days I think they segment the Precision Mobile line into three series with varying cost, weight, and performance. I prefer the 7XXX series. These are the highest performance but they are thick, heavy, and a bit expensive. Dellâs documentation claims 2.6 kg for the 16 inch model and 3.0 kg for the 17 inch. CPU options top out at 13th gen i9-13950HX (8 performance and 16 efficiency cores), with up to 128GB RAM (CAMM) or 64GB (DIMM). ECC DIMMS are supported, ECC CAMMs are not. In theory DIMMs are easily sourced commodity memory, and I think the CAMMs might be Dell proprietary. Current memory availability may make the distinction meaningless.
The current generation 16 inch (Precision 7680) and 17 inch (Precision 7780) both officially support RedHat (RHEL 9.2) and Ubuntu (22.04LTS). This is not the same as Qubes support, but it does hint at good Linux drivers.
I most recently installed Qubes 4.2 on one of these machines less than 6 months ago. I had one issue: sys-net was unable to attach the ethernet and wifi devices. I had to set both to âno strict resetâ. I went through BIOS settings before attempting to install, but I do not remember if I had to change any settings from defaults. Performance seems great compared to my older hardware, but I have no other modern hardware to compare.
Depending on your threat model, you might not want to use a used/refurbished laptop! Parts of its firmware components might have been maliciously flashed, for example.
See:
I feel you only need to worry about that if youâre actively being targeted.
I might be wrong, but I wouldnât say so. For example, if I was going to get a random laptop at a random place, it would be kinda hard for an attacker to successfully target me (or they would have to compromise each and every laptops of the market, which seems a pretty daunting task to me ;)), no matter if Iâm buying a new or a refurbished one.
I guess it is easier to buy refurbished laptops in an anonymous way? If so, it could be a better option to avoid some targeted attacks? Iâm really not sure about this though
What are the chances of that actually happening though?
When buying a refurbished laptop, we have no way to know what previously happened on it, for example, it is very likely that Windows was previously installed on it, and so that the modifiable states of the computer had been âalteredâ by it. It is also possible that a rootkit was installed on the firmware, hopefully less likely
On the opposite, buying a new laptop, that had not been used previously, and preferably with no operating system preinstalled on the disk, can provide some guarantees that its firmware is âcleanâ (if the vendor is trustworthy, of course, which might be another issue).
I think the chances of picking up tampered 2nd hand hardware is very low
I donât think we can easily have stats on this point, so i would tend to adopt a doubtful position, just to be on the safe side.
I have had great luck with multiple Dell Precision (57xx, 77xx) and Lenovo T&W Series. A month ago need a replacement and wanted best going forth as well as bang for the buck and got a Lenovo P16 Gen2 with focus on Max RAM and CPU Cores. Decided over Dell because of 4 vs 2 DIMM slots. CAMM is silenced but they changed too only one slot.
A simple question: why the page you linked do not list all the HCL that are here in the forumâŚ? I assume it may lead to some problems as the people reading the website will not bet the last HCLsâŚ
On website HCL you should pass moderation process, while everyone can post forum threat without moderation.
Take a closer look at HCLâs on forum, few of them with long list of issues to resolve.
What I did before buying a (second hand) laptop, was checking the HCL-list, and sort the kernel-column to newest.
Then you get a nice view of laptops tested with some more recent kernels-versions. Be aware when sorting the column, 6.9 is sorted above 6.14 for example, so you have to scroll down.
I bought a second-hand Dell XPS 9520 and really like it.
I am new to QubesOS. I have a Starlabs Systems Byte - a small mini box with an 8-efficiency core Core i3 process (Q1-2025 release) with 32gb of ram. It runs fast for everything I need, web browsers, proton mail client, LibreOffice, DropBox, Todoist, Tor/whonix⌠I keep every environment simple with XFCE versions so itâs fast. Ugly but fast.
Starlabs has a new Horizon laptop with a 3:2 aspect ratio screen (my preference - my Windows work laptops are always Surface laptops for this reason). Same Core 3 processor, 32gb of ram, 2tb SSD standard. $1,100 USD.
One thing I have read is the Xen hypervisor does not handle big/little architectures well. It actually works more smoothly on something like the Core 3 that has all efficiency cores of the same speed. For the fancier machines, you basically need to disable to efficiency cores for predictable performance.
Iâm seriously considering the Starlabs Systems Horizon for this reason.
On the other hand, the Starlabs Systems Horizon has soldered RAM, is not Qubes-certified, has no HCL reports, has no mainboard replacement parts available, and only comes with one-year technical support and warranty. The Intel i3-N305 was launched in Q1 2023 and only supports up to PCIe 3. Looking further up the firmware stack, it is not clear if TianoCore is still the only supported Coreboot payload, nor does it explicitly state whether Intel ME is disabled via HACI or HAP.
Depending on your threat model, you might not want to use a used/refurbished laptop! Parts of its firmware components might have been maliciously flashed, for example.
