Is it OK to update without the Qubes updates app

[dreamscomethrough]

I don’t like the Qubes Update app at all. Can I just sudo qubes-dom0-update and achieve the same or is that not recommended for some reason?

[otter2]

Yeah, there are cli tools and salt for that: How to update — Qubes OS Documentation

Although I find flags of qubes-vm-update very confusing (and kind of wrong), specifically the behavior of --force-update and --force-upgrade: Updater doesn't update

@otter2

Still, this UX decision is concerning. If user wants to “update all targeted VMs even if no updates are available”, it means user expects there to be an update, even if the system isn’t aware of it, therefore it must refresh package information to be useful.

Also I believe that this program is missing an important functionality: force update, force package information refresh, but don’t ignore errors.

[corny]

Doesnt that command only update dom0 ? Not the templates or standalones ?

[dreamscomethrough]

OMG… I was under impression the apt update && apt full-upgrade is considered OK in the domU
I tried to search in the docs for qubes-vm-update, but couldn’t find anything, especially what the flags it uses like you said.

I am looking for ways to update both the dom0 and the domUs through terminal. Qubes Updates app is just so weird.

[otter2]

@dreamscomethrough

I tried to search in the docs for qubes-vm-update, but couldn’t find anything, especially what the flags it uses like you said.

Just qubes-vm-update --help, or man it if you have docs installed, or even qubes-core-admin-linux/doc/tools/qubes-vm-update.rst at main · QubesOS/qubes-core-admin-linux · GitHub

@dreamscomethrough

OMG… I was under impression the apt update && apt full-upgrade is considered OK in the domU

It is, if they aren’t qubes-integrated. Otherwise it at least skips the scripts in /etc/qubes/post-install.d/

[dreamscomethrough]

OK, but it doesnt even say what exactly does it. And no examples. I mean, if it was domU I would just test and see, but it’s dom0… how is it not documented?

[otter2]

You mean examples on the web page? Synopsis seems pretty simple, and there aren’t much flags anyway, just snort the whole manual

[otter2]

Here, I’ve made a little draft, what do you think?

how-to-update.rst : Add examples

[dreamscomethrough]

Thanks for the effort, but it’s very unclear to me:

1. why --apps even exist, if the updates should happen to templates only?
2. if I use the --targets, can I use also the --skip along with it?
3. if I’ll use --all, can I use --skip along with it?
4. what does --no-refresh do exactly, what does it mean by refreshing the packages exactly?
5. there’s --no-cleanup flag to pass, does that mean the cleanup will be automatically applied if --no-cleanup is not passed?
6. for the --all flag description it says I need to pass --targets for AdminVM in order for it to apply to AdminVM too, but isn’t AdminVM is dom0? shouldn’t I use qubes-dom0-update for that?

And do I need to use sudo for this or I can just qubes-vm-update --force-update --targets my_qube1, my_qube2

[parulin]

@dreamscomethrough

• if I use the --targets, can I use also the --skip along with it?

Why would you target a qube and then skip it? Anyway, see below.

@dreamscomethrough

• if I’ll use --all, can I use --skip along with it?

Comma separated list of VMs to be skipped, works with all other options.

@dreamscomethrough

• what does --no-refresh do exactly, what does it mean by refreshing the packages exactly?

The way packages are updated is the following:

1. Fetch the list of available updates
2. Upgrade the packages

To me this option skips the first step.

@dreamscomethrough

• there’s --no-cleanup flag to pass, does that mean the cleanup will be automatically applied if --no-cleanup is not passed?

The docs could be clearer here.

@dreamscomethrough

• for the --all flag description it says I need to pass --targets for AdminVM in order for it to apply to AdminVM too, but isn’t AdminVM is dom0? shouldn’t I use qubes-dom0-update for that?

Glossary

But I don’t have any answer

@otter2 you can publish your drafts as “draft pull requests” to qubes-doc repo, to get an online build of your version.

[otter2]

1. For situations where you don’t want to shut down AppVM in order to propagate updates to template to it
2. Yes, for cases when you have other targeting options together with --targets. I haven’t checked what will happen if you skip a --targeted vm, but also why?
3. Yes
4. @parulin is correct here
5. I believe it refers to the scripts copied to the updated vm in order to update it. I can’t remember where they copied to though. I can’t think of any cases when nothing is copied to the targeted vm either. Probably yes?
6. In the future, there will be other AdminVMs, also some current setups probably have implemented this as well.

@dreamscomethrough

And do I need to use sudo for this or I can just qubes-vm-update --force-update --targets my_qube1, my_qube2

No, user owns qubes.

@parulin

@otter2 you can publish your drafts as “draft pull requests” to qubes-doc repo, to get an online build of your version.

We should decide whether this is what we want first, also I never tested it and have no idea how to write rst. It probably has some syntax errors.

The bit about online builds is really cool though, thanks parulin

[dreamscomethrough]

Thank you

@dreamscomethrough

if I use the --targets, can I use also the --skip along with it?

And sorry for this, it’s a mistake

[parulin]

@otter2

We should decide whether this is what we want first, also I never tested it and have no idea how to write rst. It probably has some syntax errors.

Every pull request on qubes-doc is automatically built by Readthedocs, so your PR#1560 has the following build available online:

How to update

I think that is a good way to tell others about your ongoing work, and it provides a way to give forum users a useful link to the HTML pages. If for any reason the pull request should be abandoned, you can close it. So unless the maintainers ask us not to do so, I don’t see any reason not to do it, at least as a draft PR