How-To upgrade fedora-30 to fedora-32 for newbies

Wondering if this would be helpful as a base for a how-to. Experienced Qubes users, may find this routine, but for a novice Qubes and Fedora user, I found this process not to be self evident. Received an update message, that fedora-32 was available to replace my fedora-30. Information found in websearches was either out of date or not workable, I found, as to how to successfully update. Fedora-30 is apparently no longer receiving updates. Much trial and error to determine exactly how to upgrade (update). The Qubes-OS webpage, https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2020/06/30/fedora-32-templates-available/ lists the command needed to update and further info. However for a newbie entering the commands in a Terminal and picking any Terminal from the Domain and Template VMs will not work (I tried them all.) The only Terminal, which will be useable in my experience, was the Xfce Terminal accessed via the blue Applications button at top left of screen and then opening the System Tools submenu (Xfce Terminal located near bottom of list.)
Then in this Terminal the ```
sudo qubes-dom0-update qubes-template-fedora-32

After the template has been updated, any fedora-30 VMs can be changed to fedora-32 VMs.  To do so, click on a VM in the *Applications* menu and then in the sub-menu select *Qube Settings*.  In the Basic-Settings-Template box, change fedora-30 to fedora-32.  All done for this VM.  Repeat the process for the remaining fedora-30 VMs.  If this method is of use, please feel free to modify as wished for clarity and correctness.
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That is the dom0 terminal. You can see that in the square brackets if you don’t know that.

Both the command “qubes-dom0-update” and the documentation (“which you can get with the following commands (in dom0)”) are actually very clear where to do this.

Also, the command you are referring to is downloading the Fedora 32 template. Your Fedora 30 template can be removed after all qubes that were using F30 have been switched to F32. This is done via the ‘Basic setting’ in each of the ‘Qube settings’.

I suggest making yourself familiar with the basic concept of Qubes will help a lot for a better understanding. In this case the part about " Qubes VM Manager and Command Line Tools" will be helpful

Have you seen this?

Specifically:

Install a fresh template to replace the existing one. This option may be simpler for less experienced users.

Rather than change the template in Qubes Settings, there is a useful
template manager, which allows you to change the template for many Qubes
at the same time.
Look in Qube Manager, under the System menu, and you’ll see “Manage
templates for qubes”.

Thanks unman, that looks useful. So much is new with this system, that it’s hard to find everything. Appreciated.

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Yes, of course, sorry, I forgot about that yesterday. I used that myself in the past but lately I did a few fresh installs where I only used to change a few qubes from Fedora to Debian, for example.

My point was rather that these ‘issues’ (what is dom0?, which terminal to use for updating, upgrading etc.), including switching templates, is very well documented, I think. Obviously, I should look and read there myself more often before posting stuff off the bat. :wink:

@adw I suspect this problem stems from the fact that new users are not exposed to working with dom0 in general (or realizing they are working with it) – with all the GUI update features that must have stopped being a necessary thing.

As such, I would suggest instead of mentioning dom0 terminal on announcements, calling it dom0 terminal (xfce terminal). Or somehow pointing to a doc where people can learn what the dom0 terminal is (and its consequences of usage).

But I know the arbitrary entry point to the documentation problem is tough.

But in the future there should be a better way for users to do this. I’m this is already being discussed in qubes-issues.

The problem is that some users choose to use a different desktop environment instead of Xfce.

The important thing is for the user to understand what dom0 is, including the dom0/domU distinction. Once that is understood, there’s nothing more to “dom0 terminal” than “a terminal in dom0.”

I think the UX challenge here is to find some consistent way of directing users to successfully open a terminal in dom0, even if they don’t really understand what’s going on. That might require having some unmodifiable shortcut to open one. I’m not sure whether such a move makes sense.

I agree. Food for thought. May I open a UX issue for some future brainstorming on this?

I see this thread has morphed into a discussion on the Dom 0 Terminal, which is fine. As the OP, I hadn’t understood the concept as a new Qubes user (I am learning…thank you!) Part of my original post (however badly expressed it might have been) was an attempt on my part to give other new user(s) a bit of help to bypass one of the stumbling blocks I came up against, when Qubes prompted me that there was a new version of fedora-32 available, that the old one was out of date from a security standpoint and then my having difficulty searching for a successful method of updating v30 to v32. One of the main stumbling blocks for new users I feel, is that when dropping our old systems (linux mint in my case) to dive into Qubes, we are faced with not only learning how to navigate the new-to-us Qubes methods and menu system, but also there is a “forced rush” to add our printers, vpn’s, etc, so that we can at least continue to function with the new system while learning the intricacies of learning about Qubes. I’m now about two weeks in and still haven’t gotten a working printer or vpn. There are pages in the Documentation refering to these, but they’re not a one stop solution for many new users I think. Is there any chance of some kind soul with the time and know-how to make a HowTo for new users, which would give an introductory strategy and guide to just getting our systems fully up and running with minimal fuss? This would be extremely helpful, so that we can then move on to tackle the more in-depth concepts. Many Thanks.

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Sure, that’s fine.

(By the way, I just noticed/remembered that we have this: https://www.qubes-os.org/faq/#what-is-a-terminal)

I think the problem is that everyone’s situation is unique. For example, you need a printer and a VPN. Other new users may need neither. They may instead need something that you don’t use. Therefore, it makes sense to have a doc page on printers, another on VPNs, etc. Then you can pick and choose what’s relevant to you, à la carte.

There’s also the perennial pitfall of duplicating documentation. If someone writes a comprehensive guide that covers printers and VPNs, then inevitably things will change, and the documents will get out of sync. Perhaps the printer doc page will be accurate while the comprehensive doc will not (or vice versa), at which point the inaccurate doc becomes a “noob trap,” which is worse than not existing at all, since, if it didn’t exist at all, the new user would simply find the up-to-date dedicated printer doc instead. Traps are worse than gaps.

However, if someone finds a way to create such a guide while avoiding these problems, I’d be in support of it!

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Thanks for the link and also the explanation Andrew. I’m fairly certain, that I can get my vpn working - with the new system, time has been the limiting factor so far. The printer will probably need a new thread though. I didn’t want to be flooding the forum with my difficulties. I think I’ve done things right with the printer so far, but now need a bit of help there. Will plug away a bit longer before posting for help. Thanks.

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