How does a newcomer evaluate a new OS - Qubes

  1. How easy the OS to install.

Those who don’t quit before asking questions, and who ask questions, often seem to not read the documentation (which is pretty well written) on how to install.

  1. Updates run without user intervention.

I do prefer that I start Updates, as I often have other considerations for my time besides sitting and waiting for updates. (I have to go somewhere away from home to use computer) I suspect our developers have a plugged in high speed connection. It looks like updates build the update into the Operating System while I am waiting. I would prefer that I be able to instantly pull out at any moment in the update/download/build. That is build the update then install on reboot, or within a minimally amount of time. I want to have a sense I am not clobbering my file structure by quitting some processes.

I think some newbies click the option to have their computer update over Tor. Then sometimes using Tor can be problematic.

Option two for updates is for the first thing a newcomer does is install a VPN, or one of the more clever solutions meant to get around a surveillance state. The length of threads of how to install a VPN, and then other limits as to how it works. Not for beginners. The first advice given a new comer is; Do not open a Template to the internet.
Do not modify dom0.
Then the advice on getting a VPN to work requires exactly that.

Moved post into General Discussion

Hi @catacombs why did you post this into “All Around Qubes”? That category is for topics that are not specific to Qubes OS, but related (Linux/Windows admin, privacy, app choices etc). Stuff that would be off-topic in the rest of the forum. Your post is clearly about Qubes OS and functionality / observations unique to Qubes OS. Hence I moved it into “General Discussion”.

In R4.2 I think the updater is working better

The updating functionality is reworked in R4.2 to my knowledge (I haven’t tested it myself yet). A lot of the frustration with the R4.1 updater came from limitations introduced by salt. It is my understanding that the new updater is no longer salt based or at least not exclusively so.

My personal experience is different then yours

Updates are very much a background task and shouldn’t impact your usage at all. That’s how I use updates even in R4.1. I start them and then move the respective window to another desktop and maybe check back in an hour or so.

I’m afraid there is nothing the developers can do about slow network connections or delays introduced by Tor. That’s just the nature of the beast. Personally I don’t feel much pain there since I use debian based templates and have apt-cacher-ng running. Every package gets only downloaded once and is then available locally. But to your point, that’s not a ‘new user’ thing.

I think what you are trying to discuss here is how the install / update experience as it is today might impact new users impression of Qubes OS. Correct?

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Yes, to raise the awareness of what keeps folks - newcomers from adopting Qubes.

I also meant to be vague enough so that others would suggest why I am not accurate enough.

Or is that fuzzy mind thinking.

Can’t disagree with that. I’ve encountered already over a couple of times when I need to cancel the update process and it’s just hang over 30+ mins, resulting me forcefully shutting it down, without any idea what it brings for the next time.

Simultaneous download should be introduced, as well, as each cloned template will update separately and come to huge amounts of traffic and time spend for the same thing.

I am not sure about “simultaneous downloading” I am pretty certain that some Operating Systems run faster by doing a copy one file at a time, rather than a trying to do a list “simultaneous.” Makes sense that it does not lose time switching between jobs.

Also reminds me that I should look up on how to run the program that verifies all the file structure is working all right. I guess I am waiting on 4.2 Final, and for the documentation update to be finished.

Some of my frustration with downloading, in not knowing, is I need to install a ‘Network monitor’ (in System Monitor", install in sys-net, that shows how much data is being downloaded at any one moment. Or can someone knowledgeable suggest something about that might reduce the computer security?

Yes, I vote for doing download command, and install command being separate. I should be sure I have time for the install to finish, and have enough battery, plug in power.

I notice that some folks have what is also a good idea, shows what programs replace what programs. Maybe before install. Which is why some of this might be moot. It might be handled by that feature.

Just now spotting this.

I’m sorry but I don’t think you understand his situation. Yes, updates are background, but if you’re on a slow connection you risk having to interrupt the process if you’re not working at home (or even if you are) and have to leave wherever you are at. That causes anxiety about what you’re breaking by killing the connection halfway through an update. Somone in those circumstances cannot just forget about updates, they have to wait for them to finish.

He’s looking for the ability to download all of the files (and if necessary be able to interrupt and resume later) and then at some later time, actually install the files without an internet connection to worry about.

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