Fedora/Debian EOL & Upgrade Strategy

General Discussion
1

Hi,

I’m using Qubes about a year now and created many Qubes using Debian 12 and Fedora 40 Templates… Also creates some Clones of the Standard Templates…

Now I’m realizing that EOL of Fedora 40 is right around the corner and also EOL of Debian 12 is not that far away…

And I also realized that I cannot simply upgrade my Templates to the newest OS Version…

Now I’m wondering what could be a good strategy for not having to rebuilt every template customization on a new OS Release…

If I understand correct I would have to do this every 1 Year (Fedora) or every 3 Years (Debian)… Or can Debian Templates utilize LTS Updates (5 Years)?

My first thought is to avoid Fedora where I can and use Debian instead to gain some time…

Looking forward to your thoughts and tips about this Topic!

Edit:

Just found this:

What would be the drawbacks with using this method to e.g. upgrade F40 to F41 in comparison to install F41 template?

Another thought:

Wouldn’t it be great if we could create a template as linked clone instead of a full clone (using Proxmox terminology here)?

Example:

Standard F40-xfce Template

  • Linked Clone Template 1 with Customizations
    • App Qubes based on Linked Clone Template 1
  • Linked Clone Template2 with Customizations
    • App Qubes based on Linked Clone Template 2
  • Linked Clone Template3 with Customizations
    • App Qubes based on Linked Clone Template 3

Now when there is a new OS Version, in this case F41 one could simply change the Template on the Linked Clone Templates to F41 and you are done…

So basically let a Template have a Template like App Qubes have…

2

There are no drawbacks. Simply use the tool. Duplicate your templates and standalones (using the tool, in case anything goes wrong you’ll still have the old templates and standalones) and then use the tool to upgrade them. They’ll upgrade to the latest version and you’ll have the same templates/tools/customizations as you’ve always had. Essentially, the tool is based on the in-place-upgrade instructions (with some additional checks and features) and may one day be implemented with a GUI in Qubes

If you use the tool and like it, please comment with your experience here:

3

Yes you would do approx. every one year for Fedora and every 5 years for Debian.

This would probably work except you would be stuck with older versions of software.
(Fedora is the equivalent of Debian testing, with Debian being like RedHat)

You are more likely to lose configurations than in the manual method. The method you’ve linked to works for those who have scripts that handle the customization of their templates, which could be one way to solve the issue you’re having with upgrading frequently.

4

Use salt states, although you have to put effort every time.

2 Likes
5

Depends on what you mean by “simply upgrade,” but in-place upgrades are an option, as already mentioned above.

Regarding Debian LTS, see:
https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/supported-releases/#note-on-debian-support

1 Like
6

I’m manually createing a ‘changelog’ for every template I have, then manually (or scripted if possible) recreating it in every new version.

Yes, it is some additional work, especially if you have a lot of templates. But I’m fine withthis method, as I have olnly 2-3 active templates at a time, and I’m doing this for 4+ years now.

1 Like
7

Salting the templates is a self documenting process.
To handle an update you simply have to change the name of the root template - if you
use variables in your salt states, that’s one name change in one file.
Then you create and configure the new template and apply it in place of
the one it has superseded.

Salt is relatively simple to learn at a basic level, that covers most of
the configuration needed in Qubes.

I never presume to speak for the Qubes team.
When I comment in the Forum I speak for myself.