In my opinion current moderation is somewhat heavy handed.
It should only be necessary to put threads in slow mode if offending
users dont reign themselves in after being called out.
New users asking for help should be allowed to be somewhat off topic
for Qubes, if they are struggling. At least point them to the right
place to get help (either another Forum or man page or the like) and then close the topic. I think this is particularly important where
these issues may be faced by any user new to Linux, as many are.
There’s a balancing act between keeping the Forum pure and keeping it
useful and engaging - I feel the balance is slipping the wrong way.
Are you refering to the Back Doors thread? Personally, I feel like it’s turned into quite a bit of a shitshow (and kind of has been one from the thread’s creation) so I feel like @parulin-mod 's approach was very justified.
While I agree with the principles, I’m surprised that some users don’t even read the forum rules. (Not to mention the documentation.)
It may be due to cultural or educational differences, or simply because it’s an ‘old’ mailing list habit, but I would expect a ‘new guest’ to familiarise themselves with the general rules before criticising members. Even more so, I would expect someone with an onboarding date of ‘x years ago’ to refrain from making personal insults. There’s a big difference between criticising a concept and criticising a person.
I think that you’re talking about this topic: https://forum.qubes-os.org/t/back-doors-in-everything/39710 ? I took this decision following the current moderation guidelines, considering the limited time dedicated to moderation, the personal attacks (for which some users were already told they were unacceptable), and the fact that this topic was quite peaceful since February. So I thought that slow mode wouldn’t hurt much here, while giving a break to the moderation team.
I’m fine with new users asking for help and being totally off-topic, because it’s hard to know what is related to Qubes OS at the beginning. I think I always closed topics after that the author had been told where to look for help, but I will take a closer look next time.
That amongst others.
Whatever you think of it, the thread contains useful information for
Qubes users. I think in that case taking action against individuals who
act against the CoC should not block the thread for others. (I saw a
comment of my own blocked recently - fair enough.)
The principle should be - act against the individuals, remove
offending posts, and let the threads develop. Only take action at the
thread level if the whole thread is outwith the guidelines or CoC.
As for closing down questions, particularly from new users, point them
to useful specific help - that should be enough, without closing the
thread.
Moderation should use a light touch, not a heavy hand.
I never presume to speak for the Qubes team.
When I comment in the Forum I speak for myself.
If as a user I don’t follow a topic like the one you mentioned, and if no one flags a post or a topic, there is no way for me to be aware of an issue related to that topic. That said, I don’t know if you can flag a post or send a PM to the moderation team via email?
I am not familiar with the particular workflow of moderators here. Normally, moderators monitor all threads and don’t service only reported content. So far, it has been my observation that this applies to the current forum as well. Or has something changed?
That said, I don’t know if you can flag a post or send a PM to the moderation team via email?
Flag - not by mail, AFAIK.
Replying to PM via email is possible. Initiating a PM conversation is not, I think.
I realize there are multiple mods but there is little consistency between them. I see garbage extremely tangential stuff stay up for weeks. I see acrimonious and scattered threads be given major leeway. But then this mostly courteous and harmless thread just gets locked. I don’t even bother flagging off topic anymore, what does it mean.
I’d gladly offer you to become a mod for a month or two, only eventually to bring you back to this assertion.
Being off-topic is not an embarrassment. It’s the most normal thing that happens to the majority of us. It’s not personal. We shouldn’t feel humiliated. We shouldn’t wear “victim” mask. We shouldn’t feel anger. We should be thankful. It helps us stay focused. It helps us stop wasting our time.
On Qubes forum I have never seen a topic closed for being wrongfully alleged as off-topic not being opened again or corrected in a proper way.
Looking at your subjective reasoning not a tiny bit related to “off-topicness”, I could bet this one stays closed.
But here’s bonus: it stays there, unlike posts on Graphene boards
Sorry. I wasn’t clear it looks. After closing the off-topic we shouldn’t feel that way, but thankful. Clear enough now? Even when disproved when “Good luck..” instead of being in the know.
I’m not familiar with the workflow yet but I haven’t read anywhere that it should include monitoring all the topics. That would require a huge amount of activity and it would be impossible for me to do that. Leaving the moderation tools to a limited team is a good thing, but keeping this community useful and welcoming is everyone’s responsibility.
Maybe what you see is a forum where the moderation team has a lot to do because some topics derail for quite a long time before someone takes the time to flag it? That means moderators have to jump into a very long read, which is, most of the time, painful, then take action…
