[ r4.2-r4 ] not a friend of new updater regarding dom0

updating dom0 and not knowing/seeing what is happening makes me itchy! :smiley:
I love that multiple qubes updates are done simultaneously but the black box dom0 update that goes on forever and ever and ever and ever was more interesting in xterm window.

Maybe we can have some output please, knowing that the updater is on 4kb/s might allow me to do other things instead of wait on it, hopefully this will be changed before finally release.


thanks, but i remember reading one should not go into template and do dnf update or apt upgrade but rather use the updater in previous Q releases which confuses me now

Generally, the default update tool is meant to provide as simple experience as possible. If you want to carefully review packages list and accept (or reject) some, you are free to use apt upgrade or whichever other command you like directly.

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Yes, I saw it in this discussion as well:

But I can’t tell about the current state of things.

This is an interesting topic. I surely appreciate the 4.1’s Updater Tool, as it shows me which packages got updated, or which processes have failed. I would like to keep seeing that in 4.2 and going forward, too.


wonder how the updater resolves these dnf edge cases when ffmpeg, vlc, gstreamer run into conflicts and it would be great if i could see how the updater is going to treat these and/or allow me to abort

I think this is the relevant enhancement request:


I think this is a general problem between developers and users:

Developers see a way to fulfill one task completely automatically to avoid user errors and they program it. (I was one of those.) They don’t see, that they close away knowledge from normal users.

But that’s one of the main problems of security: Not to know what happens is the most effective way to get fooled by others with better knowledge from the dark side.

We - the average Qubes users - like it, to have done many tasks as easy as possible. - But as we sit at our own desk(tops), we want to be able to see what happens in detail whenever we want it or think we need it. If needed, we want to be able to do the task manually. - That’s one of the reasons, why we are using Qubes instead of any other OS.

Microsoft with its Windows were the first and Canonical with Ubuntu followed the mainstream to infantilise their customers. Most of their users are not able to check what happens under the surface, even if they want it.

I hope we don’t go the same way. Nothing against automatism but at each place this takes place, there should be a hint to a good piece of documentation, how to get a verbose output what happens or how to surround the automatism completely and do the task manually.

As I understand, the Qubes Team is interested in users, what feel responsible for what happens on their computers. This will get more and more impossible, the more you hide the processes what take place.