I think strategic ambiguity with the forum’s name and description is the best way forward–at least during its launch period. This would give mod(s) flexibility in deciding what is relevant and what is just too far off topic, or maybe relevant but abusive (e.g. shilling an infosec product).
With time and experience a more substantial title and description could be applied, but at the start when things are still fuzzy and hazy I think it’s best that @Sven be given more leeway for personal judgment and not be too tied down by concrete descriptions, especially since he seems to be an established, thoughtful, and trusted member of the community. At the same time this doesn’t mean we should be ultra-ambiguous to the point where the description looks just like that of an off-topic forum.
It’s like that court ruling on porn:
I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [“hard-core pornography”], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it , and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.
In general I agree, but for my comfort I would like nevertheless to discuss the rough outlines the community wants to agree upon.
For example I would be inclined to shut down anything that would fall under politics or activism of any sort. Qubes OS users are bound to have strong opinions there that most likely spread the entire spectrum. Nothing good can come from allowing this kind of discussion even if it is somehow related to Qubes OS use. I have watched with horror what those discussions have done to other communities and do not want any of that to happen here.
Very much agree – just let’s please make sure people using the email interface only get to that trust level (I recall you had to manually promote @unman to that level? … if so then something is severely broken)
We can say something like this: “Topics not directly related to Qubes can only be discussed by users who made significant contributions on the forums”.
in case of a thread starting out in the wrong category … move it to the correct one and notify the OP (can this be done?)
in case of a reply that branches into another category … make a stub in the correct category and post a pointer to it (I’ve seen @deeplow do this already)
Yes, this is possible. However, users posting may not have trust level 2 so they won’t be able to continue it, if I move it there.
I feel compelled not to hint at the existence of this category and let them find it once they’ve been using the forum. This will avoid people trying to game the system just to get access to that (not sure how many would be interested in this, though). And of course they can always come across this discussion or be hinted at by another user.
You pretty much summed my thoughts. Since not everybody can talk there, we’re better off not advertising it too much on the public section.
But the above canned response sounds appropriate enough. . Actually, on default discourse installations a “lounge” category for members already exists.
Since you’re the one carrying the “burden” ultimately, I think it’ll up to you what kinds of discussions you can take as a moderator.
I think this is the key point. Again, I see a lot of fear here of off-topic discussions and a lot of willingness to force the discussion to be “correct”. I don’t think it is a good way of managing the community. It shows the lack of trust to your community.
I see a good example with @amosbatto who positively contributed to a relevant discussion despite being a newcomer and could not even post all necessary proofs due to forums’ restrictions. Now, you want to restrict the users even more. This seems to be heading to less diverse discussions and smaller community. (I would like to note, again, that the topic was about hardware running Qubes, so useful to the community).
And this is another good example why those restrictions may not be warranted.
I would like to say that, despite the new category is not directly related to Qubes, it may still may be important to most/many Qubes OS users. What are the actual reasons to create all those restrictions and complications in the first place? Could we, for the sake of test, open such category for everyone for a month?
The whole point of this category is for giving a space to those discussions. The reasons for keeping the forum on-topic have been addressed before and I’d urge us not not go back to that discussion point.
Indeed, I suggested a closed category and I still think it’s a good idea. But I did not suggest to close it even from users on this forum. I suggest to open it for all registered users for one month as a test. Anyway, I think that trust level 2 is a too strong barrier.
I can see one major and very important argument against this–manpower.
Deeplow is the only active mod I’ve seen here, and Sven will help out with the Tangents subcategory (my temporary name for it). That makes two volunteers with many other things to do in their lives.
Opening up such a category without increasing the threshold for entry would mean opening up the floodgates. For example, if the Tangents subcategory suddenly became popular, which is not out of the question, then there’d be droves of people from across the web who might not have interest in Qubes clogging up the moderation queue, and that opens the forum up to a lot of abuse and issues. Getting new mods aboard is troublesome; getting new mods aboard in short order is worse IMO–best to have trusted people modding.
On the other hand that might, as a side effect, drive up interest in and adoption of Qubes, which might be a positive development to some, but I think the risks outweigh the potential benefits.
I’m in favor of having a forum for topics tangential to Qubes, but I’m not in favor of unrestricted access since that might lead to disastrous results for the overall forum–those who participate must have, in a non-trivial way, demonstrated an interest in Qubes and positive contribution to discussions, otherwise why be here in the Qubes forum? Why not go to one of the myriad other forums?